The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Shotguns => Topic started by: tstand on January 03, 2014, 09:57:36 PM
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Sorry if this question has been asked a bunch of times. I don't see any existing threads discussing it, so here goes...
I have a modified mossberg 500 with a pistol grip and vertical forend grip. Its primary purpose is home defense, and I have bird shot handy as the load recommended in this forum.
In a defensive scenario, the maximum distance from shooter to target would be under 25 ft in any hallway or room.
It has the original front bead sight only. Is it worth having a rear sight, or something different like a red dot? Or should I just rely on the front bead sight?
Thanks!
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Is that stock pistol grip only or can you put it up to your shoulder too?
If it's only a pistol grip, I'd get rid of it IMHO and get a proper full length stock or an adjustable.
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You can get a laser as well. A BG seeing a red or green dot might be enough to get them out of the house, especially after hearing you rack your shotgun. If scaring him/her out does not work, a laser is the best way to make an accurate shot IMHO.
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The shotgun has a Blackhawk stock and pistol grip, and UTC forend grip attached to a rail. There is room for a light or laser on the rail, too.
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My mossy 500 just has a bead. You can add set of sights-
http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/sights/sight-sets/shotgun-tactical-ghost-ring-sight-set-prod19562.aspx?avs|Make~~Model_1=Mossberg__500
Buy a barrel with sights-
http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/barrel-parts/barrels/barrel-24-rifle-sights-ported-blue-prod17374.aspx?avs|Make~~Model_1=Mossberg__500
Or as noted get a laser. I myself would spring for a white light if I didn't have the $$ for a light/laser combo.
http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/flashlights-accessories/gun-mounted-flashlights/tlr-1-weapon-light-prod24182.aspx
http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/flashlights-accessories/gun-mounted-flashlights/tlr-2-weapon-light-laser-sight-prod27206.aspx
You still have to identify your target.
Go out and shoot some clay pigeons. If you can hit a clay moving 50 MPH, a torso at 25ft shouldn't be an issue.
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If you need a rear sight or laser at 8 Yards with a shotgun you should be more concerned with your blindness than with shotgun accessories.
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If you need a rear sight or laser at 8 Yards with a shotgun you should be more concerned with your blindness than with shotgun accessories.
You may not have intended the message to be condescending but that is how it comes across.
I started this thread because of what I read this month in a magazine called Gun Tests. They reviewed two shotguns for home defense: Tristar Raptor A-TAC Home Defense and Remington 870P Police Magnum). The Tristar has front fiber-optic sight and a ghost ring in the rear. The Remington has a front sight and mid-barrel sight post.
They had a close-up picture of the Tristar sights and have a quote in bold which says, "At close range the shotgun must be aimed carefully as a rifle. The A-TAC's sights made aiming closely possible. The front post with red-fiber is a great addition to a combat shotgun. The sights of the A-TAC are superior overall to the Remington, in our opinion." Later they say, "In firing tests at combat ranges of 7 to 15 yards, the A-TAC came on target more quickly and hits were surer..."
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I had a Williams peep sight and rifle style front sight installed before the ghost ring became really popular. It has a screw in aperture that I removed so it's now like a ghost ring. If I did it all over now I would get the XS ghost ring and tritium front sight.
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Tstand, the purpose of most so-called "tests" in most so-called "gun mags"is to sell some sort of product.
The product may be useful or it may be useless--but someone makes it and wants you buy it. And they have convinced a reviewer to write something about it.
When Tom suggested you should be more concerned with your poor eyesight if you can't hit something at 8 yards with a 12Ga., he wasn't being condescending. He was (IMHO) giving you the benefit of his decades of experience--without trying to take any of your money for a product you don't need.
I have had the pleasure (joy, really) of reading Tom's posts when he IS being condescending. He is very good at it and it can be quite entertaining. But, I can assure you this was not one of those times.
You are still fairly new to this particular group of gun nuts, but when you ask a question here, you will get honest answers from many points of view. What they have in common is that none attempt to sell you anything.
But, if you get your panties in a bunch every you think you might have been insulted here, you are going to spend an awful lot of time dislodging panties. And that, my friend, takes a lot of the joy out of sharing your thoughts.
And, FWIW, I have a similar set-up to yours with my 870--no pistol grip, but no rear site, either. I did add a tactical fore-end with a rail mounted white light and I added a mag extension, too--just in case I missed that first close-up shot, I wanted another half-dozen to convince the bad guy he was in the wrong house. Inexpensive additions that I think would serve you better than a rear site.
Crusader Rabbit
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Gun tests is different CR. They accept NO commercial advertising from anyone. They aren't trying to sell you any particular gun. They just have honest tests.
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i know a few turkey hunters that installed a second smaller bead half way down the barrel i would think if sized ans postioned correctly that would work like a pair of reverse ghost rings.
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Gun tests is different CR. They accept NO commercial advertising from anyone. They aren't trying to sell you any particular gun. They just have honest tests.
You are correct. Inside the cover of each issue it says in red text: "Gun Tests accepts no commercial advertising"
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Gun tests is different CR. They accept NO commercial advertising from anyone. They aren't trying to sell you any particular gun. They just have honest tests.
I have read several issues of Gun Tests and I certainly agree with you that their no advertising policy goes a long way toward impartiality.
However, I have never been able to confirm that the "testers" are as independent as one might wish.
As with almost anything, when you follow the money you should find the truth.
They claim impartiality, yet if you multiply the subscription figures and divide by the cost of test gear, guns, lasers, etcetera, then add in the cost of impartial writers, postage, printing and distribution, it sure seems like somebody must be getting a dose of dough from an unnamed source because the numbers just don't seem to work.
I do know our collective group of loudmouths and misfits has a long history of real life weapons experience and none of us is getting paid to voice our claims, concerns and convictions.
Well, at least I'm not.
Crusader Rabbit
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yeah, where are my checks?
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I do know our collective group of loudmouths and misfits has a long history of real life weapons experience
Yep, that's why I thought I would ask my question in this forum, to supplement what I read in the magazine :P
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I shoot a fair amount for a gun-nut, but I do not consider myself an expert at it. Yet surprise! I have an opinion.
We have several platforms for HD and a 12 ga with pistol grip is one of them. I do not need sights on that gun.
If I were to need to use it I would be sending sizeable clouds of lead at someone (s) at close range in an attempt to blow large holes in them or to detach body parts...sights are not needed. IF we're talking HD. Other applications might require sights.
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An expensive solution would be to get an NFA Trust, apply for a Short Barrel Shotgun stamp from the BATF&E and load her up with Turkey shot; pretty much guarantees you will hit everything on the other side of the front site.
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I didn't mean to sound condescending .
I save that for the politics forum .
But think hard about what you are asking .
"Should I use a rear sight with shot at 25 Ft ( 8.33 yards )"
Shotguns are used to shoot ducks and geese with the same load (shot) at much longer ranges with just the bead .
If it works for a 15+ pound goose or turkey at 25+ yards it is just fine for a 150+ pound person at 1/3 the distance.
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I wasn't going to weigh in here, but here goes:
I tend to agree with those advocating no rear sights, but would opt for a tritium or fiber optic front sight. In a home defense situation, the lack of minute focus may negate the fine accuracy gains of a ghost ring rear apparatus, or a rear sight in general.
You would be surprised at the number of average folks (with minimal to no training) who never see the rear sights on handguns and rifles in 'high stress-low light' situations also. They tend to look over the top of the gun (which you can still get hits that way, and I have seen trainers that include drills with this style of shooting).
But......
If you do add sighting tools to a shotgun (add HD rifle in here to, IMO):
A red-dot with no magnification or a laser may be applicable.
*(I am looking at red/green-dot scopes for my shotguns like I use for my AR HD gun)
My personal preference is a good light, **maybe a dot scope (added for now, while I research dots)** and practice with the weapon.
Practice and familiarity often trumps the gadgets that we often put too much faith in......
JMHO, FWIW.
**Another thing to remember is that at super close range, such as in a SD/HD scenario, shotgun loads rarely open up as much as you think...... At 10', almost all loads will make one single entry hole. It can take up to 20' of distance to actually show a spread of pellets with average birdshot and even farther for loads like turkey and duck..... and buck is a whole other issue.
At short range, a shotgun is not much different than a rifle....except for that whole "hits like a sledgehammer" factor. ;D
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THats very true, even open chokes ( ie cylinder) don't open up very much, rifled bores are diffrent, but you would not want that for sd. hitting a man sized target with a slug at 50 yd is very easy with just a beed front sight, why you would need to do that in sd i don't know, but as long as you have reasonable vizion i can teach any one how to do that.
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I meant to add yesterday that I subscribed to "Gun Tests" for a year and I was not impressed at all.
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I meant to add yesterday that I subscribed to "Gun Tests" for a year and I was not impressed at all.
+100 and a total waist of money.
Front sight tritium and no rear sight. A tritium/fiber optic combo would be best if you could find it. So far I have not.
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I meant to add yesterday that I subscribed to "Gun Tests" for a year and I was not impressed at all.
Same reason mine wasn't renewed.
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for a person that is an experienced shotgun shooter, they understand that their eye is the rear sight and requires consistent placement of their cheek on the stock.... for someone that may have to pick up a shotgun under duress, and use it without a lot of experience, it is very easy to lift your head.... go with a rear sight, even if it is a simple buckhorn or "v" notch...this 10/22 sight allows accurate slug shots to 75yards (head shots)
(http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/DSC00467_zpsb3bda480.jpg) (http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/DSC00467_zpsb3bda480.jpg.html)