Gun Retention

[2HOW]

Poor training.

[m25operator]

Poor training.

The poor guy fought for his life and gun, until he broke his hand enough that bones are sticking out, and the BG left, he remembered the most important lesson, FIGHT, until you can't fight anymore. He did against a much bigger man, who may or may not have been high on whatever, and he survived. Really think a weak side knife ( non folder ) or impact weapon could have helped, even the flashlight, better than his hand, but I give him kudos for sticking with it, I was not there and can only imagine the brutality. I think his mindset was on the gun, and it staying where it was, and using 2 hands to do it, taking a pounding in the process.

Yes he could have stayed in the car, and just called in what he saw, and not have attempted to apprehend, that was his call. He tried to do his duty as he saw fit. I won't question him on it, wonder what his thoughts are now, if it did happen again?

[TAB]

Many a LEO have been saved by a mag disconnect...  If you are going to openly carry a gun, I highly recomend this feature.

[JSC3ATLCSO]

First. Glad to hear your friend has wounds that will heal and I hope they don't show this much mercy when they find the D-Bag. 



Unfortunately since I left the LE Business I don't get this cool training anymore.  I was the only one that could keep the weapon on me and I'm a dispatcher but I'm also 6'2 and 350 lbs.  It also helps to have good holsters.  At the time The Louisa County Sheriff's office carried Bianchi 3.2.1's and beretta 92's  Bianchi also makes a concealled carry retention holster that is a very good product.  Both have a auto-lock like SERPA's.  SERPA's are nice but the release button while being in a proper grip location it is on the outside of the holster for people to see and possibly manipulate.  Bianchi's are thumb operated when you grip and it is almost hidden by the gun and while not impossible pretty close to being impossible to operate if you aren't the owner of the gun.

3.  Mag disconnects are a double edged sword.  While it is good in the situation you are talking about I have heard it the other way and if something stupid were to happen and the mag falls out at least you still have one round to put downrange.  In the same sentance there is only one round to fire back at you and hopefully you can survive that.
   I personally hate mag disconnects.  I can see the advantages and also the disadvantages.

[scott.ballard]

The poor guy fought for his life and gun, until he broke his hand enough that bones are sticking out, and the BG left, he remembered the most important lesson, FIGHT, until you can't fight anymore. He did against a much bigger man, who may or may not have been high on whatever, and he survived. Really think a weak side knife ( non folder ) or impact weapon could have helped, even the flashlight, better than his hand, but I give him kudos for sticking with it, I was not there and can only imagine the brutality. I think his mindset was on the gun, and it staying where it was, and using 2 hands to do it, taking a pounding in the process.

Yes he could have stayed in the car, and just called in what he saw, and not have attempted to apprehend, that was his call. He tried to do his duty as he saw fit. I won't question him on it, wonder what his thoughts are now, if it did happen again?

Absolutely a noble effort to perform his duties.  It is good to know that he will recover.

Unfortunately it ends there and I have to agree with 2HOW. 

The rest of this is pure discussion for discussion sake  It, BY NO MEANS, is intended as anything more than conjecture or extrapolation and is NOT a comment on this particular officer's actions:

Windmilling with your fist when you have other options is the sign of a reversion to a base survival instinct. It is an indicator of a deeply engrained intellectual response. Let's presume that an officer has a full kit and has completed his annual training dance steps.  Is he properly prepared for an encounter such as the one described in this thread?  Most likely not. 

Why not?  Insufficient training.

You own a EDW such as a taser.  You keep it properly maintained because you want it to work.  You have a spare cartridge or two just in case.  You even practice with it twice a year to make sure you remember how to use it.  Does that make you GTG? Under stress are you ready to draw it, manipulate the safety, sight it and discharge device?  In that moment of need do you want it to be an unconsciously competent act, or do you want to think your way through the operation?

K9 and Military Working Dog handlers train with their partners quite regularly. They use real humans in a realistic situation so the animal will know how to react and so the handler can gain confidence that the animal WILL react. Why train in such realistic scenarios?  So they know what to do in any foreseeable situation without having to revert to the instruction sheet. 

It's a shame we don't train our human officers with such passion.

The odds are in favor that if a person frequently and realistically trains with an item, they will demonstrate competence with that item under heightened levels of stress.

Infrequent, confusing or poorly contrived training leads us back to our most base instincts.

Stay Safe,

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