The 21 Foot Rule...Thoughts And Advice

[tombogan03884]

Tyler brings up a "moral" question I have asked myself.

I agree that the Police have different duties towards criminals than do ordinary citizens.

But, do ordinary citizens have the responsibility to do more?

Protect innocents who are being attacked when the citizen has the means, skill and capability to stop the attack.

Do they have a responsibility to stop the escape of a serial killer if they have the chance?

Do these responsibilities go away if it is risky?  Or illegal?

I look at these questions as separate from the legal answers to them.

 

The way NH laws are written you do not have any stated responsibility to take such actions, but since the law applies to the "defense of self and others" you are covered if you choose to take action.
The law also specifies sexual assault or escape of a violent felon.
Other states may differ.
It basically is a question of conscience. Can you walk away and ignore some one in physical danger ?
On the other hand , if you are going to make an armed intervention into a situation you better be damned sure you understand exactly what is happening instead of just reacting to what appears to be happening.
The scruffy guy scuffling with the woman, is it an abduction ? Or is it a plainclothes cop wrestling with a female suspect ?
Are you going to be a hero for shooting a rapist ? Or are you going to be a chump for shooting a cop ?

[ricco]

Tame Bill and I ran the Tueller Drill, FOF on 12/29/11. We made a vid of it. This was the first time we tried using mask mounted POV cameras. The attack started at 5 yards and the fight lasted 3 seconds, first movement to last shot. This is in slow motion so the pellets can be seen.


http://youtu.be/FUKRn12J2j8

[Solus]

Nice video.

Couple of questions.  Seemed like the "Gansta" grip was being used.  Is that an instinctive stance when attacked?  Maybe allowing a clearer view of the attacker?

And, I could not tell if the pistol was holstered at the start or if it was in hand?

Showed something I have believed....if you are looking at the potential threat at that distance and watching for an attack move, the guy will get slaughtered. 

If you are not aware until the move is made, you are gonna be cutting it way to close.

[tombogan03884]

Solus, I think the "Gangsta grip" was an illusion caused by  the relative position of the camera.
In the second view the gun looked more vertical.

[ricco]

The grip was result of the direction I was moving. Earlier we proved to our satisfaction that if you stand your ground you get cut. From looking at the other vids where the defender didn't move the best the defender could do was to trade a shot for a cut.   Movement off the line of attack is essential. I carry AIWB so that was where my draw came from.

We are going to start using the cameras more in FOF training. It's hard to correct mistakes if you don't know your making them. Although I won that scenario there are things I could have done better.

[Sponsor]

[76project]

great info, keep it up, never stop training...

[rojawe]

Very good information and on the down side if you assume the guy 21ft from you is the BG and you pull your weapon your in deep do do. Just take the flash mob and knocking out victims and most are kids and that's a whole new ball game

[Solus]

Very good information and on the down side if you assume the guy 21ft from you is the BG and you pull your weapon your in deep do do. Just take the flash mob and knocking out victims and most are kids and that's a whole new ball game

On the other hand, if you see the guy at 21ft and assume he is the bad guy and discretely put your hand on your weapon without drawing and plan your move off line and watch  him like a hawk you will do ok.

Smile at him when you are set to go and he'll likely move on....or draw on you ...