Gun Debate - US vs Europe?

[tombogan03884]

I think Marshal has put this into a perspective that oldeurope will best understand, especially when pointing out the differance between our "Rights" and their "privileges". As he said, Europeans don't understand Americans, nor do Americans understand Europeans.  Fortunately for us we have Marshal , who is an American from Europe and understands both.

[oldeurope]

Thanks a lot you guys. I think we are finally talking. This is very interesting for me - honestly.
to make one point clear - I never claimed to understand the US fully and I agree a year could not be enough for that - that's part of why I'm "palling around" with you guys here ;-) 
But for the point of understanding - being from differnt continents can make it harder, but that is also true for people from one US-Region to another - even with your next door neighbor can be hard - it's important to try.

In some posts I read really worried statements of what the US will come to now with the new president.
I really wonder, how many of you are actually convinced, that in your lifetime, you will have to and will use your gun to save America from the government. How likely in %.
I#m not asking that to say later: "well that little, then don't bother" I understand the importance for you to be sure to be able to, however unlikely that may be. Or to ensure, that it stays unlikely.

I'm honest, I probably won't be able to shake off the impression, that you are overreacting. But I'd find that really interesting, to see how badly you feel represented:

Likeliness in the next 10 years: x %
Likeliness in the next 20 years: x %
Likeliness in the next 30 years: x %
Likeliness in the next 40 years: x %

Thanks.

[Marshal Halloway]

But for the point of understanding - being from differnt continents can make it harder, but that is also true for people from one US-Region to another - even with your next door neighbor can be hard - it's important to try.

If you study the gun laws in both continents, you will learn that the main difference between US and Europe is related to self defense.

European gun laws in general give individuals a privilege to purchase firearms for hunting and sports shooting. The same laws are also heavy regulated.

Self defense is the part that is so hard to accept and understand among Europeans and as I posted earlier, the false impression they get through media and Hollywood brings fuel to that fire.

Have in mind that there are over 20,000 laws and regulations in the US (federal, state and local) defining what law abiding citizens can do and not do under the Second Amendment !
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/

On another note: Almost daily, I receive requests from Europeans wanting to buy a gun either through export or by purchasing one while visiting the US.
 
I have to break the news telling them that export might be a solution if an import and export license can be provided, but for a foreign tourist visiting US to purchase a gun and personally bring it home is a federal crime both for buyer and seller. These requests prove that there are a lot of misunderstandings about gun laws in the US.

Again, the reason gun crimes exist and in both continents is that criminals don't respect gun laws or any other law for that matter. To solve this problem, US politicians are doing their "best" to keep adding to the 20,000 plus and they achieve nothing.

Banning firearms mean that criminals and those representing government will be the only ones with either an illegal or legal access to firearms. The law abiding citizens last resource to self defense will be taken away.

How the Second Amendment is defined in the light of an individual right has been discussed for decades and will still be open to discussion even after the Supreme established it as an individual right.

OldEurope, I recommend that you listen to our coverage of the DC v Heller arguments back in March and the ruling back in June. It will give you some more insight and a better understanding why gun owners in the US are fighting hard not to lose any rights related to gun ownership:

The hearing: http://www.downrange.tv/rkba/dc-v-heller.htm

Commentaries after the hearing: http://www.downrange.tv/rkba/dc-v-heller2.htm

Commentaries after the ruling: http://www.downrange.tv/rkba/index.htm

Thanks for keeping an open mind and willingness to understand this better.

[tombogan03884]

Thanks a lot you guys. I think we are finally talking. This is very interesting for me - honestly.
to make one point clear - I never claimed to understand the US fully and I agree a year could not be enough for that - that's part of why I'm "palling around" with you guys here ;-) 
But for the point of understanding - being from differnt continents can make it harder, but that is also true for people from one US-Region to another - even with your next door neighbor can be hard - it's important to try.

In some posts I read really worried statements of what the US will come to now with the new president.
I really wonder, how many of you are actually convinced, that in your lifetime, you will have to and will use your gun to save America from the government. How likely in %.
I#m not asking that to say later: "well that little, then don't bother" I understand the importance for you to be sure to be able to, however unlikely that may be. Or to ensure, that it stays unlikely.

I'm honest, I probably won't be able to shake off the impression, that you are overreacting. But I'd find that really interesting, to see how badly you feel represented:

Likeliness in the next 10 years: x %
Likeliness in the next 20 years: x %
Likeliness in the next 30 years: x %
Likeliness in the next 40 years: x %

Thanks.

You certainly have THAT right, when a "Yankee" from Maine talks with a "Cajun" from Louisiana, they need an interpreter 
The initial hostility toward oldeurope is probably do to a misunderstanding of his initial posts leading to the assumption that he was trying to stir up conflict.
The democratic party in the US, (including the predecessors of the party, all the way back to Thomas Jefferson) Have been practicing economic plans that are consistently 30 -50 years out of date if they were ever practical, for example they caused the US Civil war to retain a slave economy that was already being made impractical by the advent of "Farm machinery" at a time when Northern factories were so desperate for labor that they were hiring children. The democrats have also for the same 232 years been anti military anti national defense, the ONLY military action that the Dem's supported was WWII, and not until after the USSR was invaded.
With the growing divergence  between the goals of conservatives and liberals, I would put the likelyhood of armed internal conflict at around 75%, that will of course be subject to how closely Obama follows his Marxist training.
One thing you may not have considered is that all those 20,000 gun laws that Marshal mentioned are a waste of paper, we have laws against murder, rape, robbery, assault, and negligence, how do you make them "more illegal" ? Especially when criminals, by definition, have no regard for the law and do as they please regrdless.
As some one else said "Why is it that after every mass shooting the govt and liberals try to take guns away from the people who DIDN'T do it ?"

[jaybet]

Hi , I'm  back- couldn't resist. Everyone has different ideas. It's not the likelihood of needing to fight our government that is on our minds so much...much more than that is the support and protection of our freedom. In an attempt to APPEAR that they are doing something important or constructive (ESPECIALLY with regard to guns) the government constantly passes regulations and laws that ONLY affect law-abiding gun owners, but not criminals. These attempts accomplish nothing except to erode our freedom. The liklihood of that happening is 100%- it happens CONSTANTLY. THAT is the biggest concern of gun owners.
If we stay strong and our freedoms remain intact it is much less likely that the first scenario will occur.

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

Hi , I'm  back- couldn't resist. Everyone has different ideas. It's not the likelihood of needing to fight our government that is on our minds so much...much more than that is the support and protection of our freedom. In an attempt to APPEAR that they are doing something important or constructive (ESPECIALLY with regard to guns) the government constantly passes regulations and laws that ONLY affect law-abiding gun owners, but not criminals. These attempts accomplish nothing except to erode our freedom. The liklihood of that happening is 100%- it happens CONSTANTLY. THAT is the biggest concern of gun owners.
If we stay strong and our freedoms remain intact it is much less likely that the first scenario will occur.

Good point, Jay.
Actually, THE POINT here.
Basically, this point of view can be applied to most, if not all laws. People just choose guns because of the emotional issues related.
Laws are only followed by honest people.
Examples?
Breaking and entering is against the law.....but it happens.
Speeding is against the law................but it happens.
Writing bad checks, murder, rape, molestation............well...you get the picture (I hope).

Good people obey the laws (laws that are unnecessary if everyone were honest) that criminals pay no heed to.