Student shoots self in leg at "Aim Fast, Hit Fast" training.....

[Rob Pincus]

Good points, Trident, excellent overview of the traditional basics.  (I'm teaching in your AO, this week, btw...)

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I'm not doctor, nor do I conduct medical training specifically. I do try to keep up with it, require that all my instructors have a tourniquet and quality compression bandages on their person when teaching CFS and contract in leading specialty instructors (D.A.M.N., Black Sheep, etc) for the medical information.

I think that the leading edge is to focus on bloodloss as the primary care focus, ie- as #1 on your list of priorities. Keep the blood in the body. If you can send someone else to call for help concurrently, all the better. This is what we recommend for people in a training environment.

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Peg leg,

Kits are not at all overrated. Especially simple kits. They give you ONE PLACE for the RIGHT THINGS. There is no reason to use old surgical tubing as a tourniquet or repurposed hygiene products to stop blood loss in 2010. We're all spending a lot of money and effort and time to have guns and ammo and get to the range... the extra $40 for simple supplies and a belt pack is worth it.

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As for this thread itself, I think the integrity that the instructor showed in sharing the story is a great thing. We had a student shoot himself in the leg (through his holster) at Valhalla many years ago and we tried to use the incident to educate (both from the lessons that the instructor on the range learned and the mechanics of what actually happened).  Pretending that these accidents don't happen all the time is dangerous. Ignoring the need for a plan is dangerous. Skipping out on simple items and basic knowledge is dangerous.

-RJP

[JdePietro]

When people handle firearms long enough its not a matter of "If" it becomes a matter of "When".
We have to stay vigilant on saftey.

What Brady Campaign nonsense gave you that one liner? I would suggest if you don't have the stats to back that up its not worth putting out there. I for one get pissed everytime I hear someone utter the "Accidental Discharge" BS. There is no such thing, it doesn't exist, its about as useless a phrase as "a whole nuther". The student did a stupid thing and paid the price, end of story.

[tombogan03884]

There ARE occasionally "Accidental" discharges. They ALL involve defective fire arms, which, after all ARE mechanical devices and can break.
ALL others are " NEGLIGENT " discharges and involve some one violating one of the 4 basic rules of safety.

[Fatman]

I'm curious as to why the practical trauma kit doesn't include or link to a quick clot gauze pack. As easy to use as a pressure bandage and easily removed after clotting. 

[Ranger Dave]

Quote from: Ranger Dave on February 03, 2010, 08:53:32 PM
When people handle firearms long enough its not a matter of "If" it becomes a matter of "When".
We have to stay vigilant on saftey.


What Brady Campaign nonsense gave you that one liner? I would suggest if you don't have the stats to back that up its not worth putting out there. I for one get pissed everytime I hear someone utter the "Accidental Discharge" BS. There is no such thing, it doesn't exist, its about as useless a phrase as "a whole nuther". The student did a stupid thing and paid the price, end of story.

My intent on my comment was when people handle firearms long enough people will get complacent with safety and stuff will happen. That is why we all have to stay vigilant on saftey. As for official stasts I don't have any However I know of six cases of people I know and worked who had ND's because they were complacent. I believe everyone here now as least one story of a ND and this is why we all have to stay vigilant on the 4 basic rules of safety.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Quote from: Ranger Dave on February 03, 2010, 08:53:32 PM
When people handle firearms long enough its not a matter of "If" it becomes a matter of "When".
We have to stay vigilant on saftey.


What Brady Campaign nonsense gave you that one liner? I would suggest if you don't have the stats to back that up its not worth putting out there. I for one get pissed everytime I hear someone utter the "Accidental Discharge" BS. There is no such thing, it doesn't exist, its about as useless a phrase as "a whole nuther". The student did a stupid thing and paid the price, end of story.

My intent on my comment was when people handle firearms long enough people will get complacent with safety and stuff will happen. That is why we all have to stay vigilant on saftey. As for official stasts I don't have any However I know of six cases of people I know and worked who had ND's because they were complacent. I believe everyone here now as least one story of a ND and this is why we all have to stay vigilant on the 4 basic rules of safety.

Since you are posting on THIS site and not something like "Democrat underground I figured that was where you were going with that comment.   

[Ranger Dave]

Thanks Tom

[JSC3ATLCSO]

I'm curious as to why the practical trauma kit doesn't include or link to a quick clot gauze pack. As easy to use as a pressure bandage and easily removed after clotting. 

Quick Clot is a very Dangerous substance.  Cannot be used on anything above the major joints Elbows and Knees.  I know this case it would have been maybe ok but most people don't know that and they use them improperly.  Causes clots where you don't want them. (brain and heart and lungs)  This is why we don't have them on the ambulance service.



"That movie Shooter was a pretty good movie.  Fairly accurate if you take out the drama" - USMC GnySgt Caudle (Ret.)  My former Chieft Deputy when I worked at the sheriff's office.  He also commented about the quick clot scene when he puts quick clot on a chest wound. 

[fightingquaker13]

Ranger Dave is right. Lets save the holier than thou BS. There is not a single one of us who drives a car or shoots a gun, who has not had an "Oh sh*t"! moment. It happened to me when I blew through a red light I didn't see because I was busy talking to my passenger some years ago, and it happened with a gun when I violated the booger hook/bang switch rule. No harm no foul either time, but it could very easily have gone the other way, and if it had, I had nobody to blame but me. Both scared the crap out of me enough to be "come Jesus moments" in terms of "I will never let myself get distracted again", but they were wake up calls. I doubt I'm alone here. Anyone?
FQ13

[JSC3ATLCSO]

Unfortunately I have one past and one present friend with wounds to their legs from handguns.  I will say they were neg discharges as Tom has put it.  The healed buddy I can say it was more the gun than himself but it was the classic revolver cocked on a loaded chamber while walking to the firing line.  It was mostly that he had never been around revolvers before.  (Was his dad's .22) I'm still calling that one his fault.  Currently I have a friend/acquaintance that has a badly busted up Femur from a 9mm.  If anyone has facebook you can search for Zach Steinhart and his xray is his facebook profile picture.. Dumbass.  I don't know what the circumstances of this ND/AD were yet but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't involve something stupid.