A TV documentary on "Who Killed the Electric Car?"

[Rastus]

It's not that it wears out "sooner", but it wears out before you can recoup the savings, because the technology is still much too expensive to realize any cost savings.............. If I had to buy a new car today I'd get a Jetta Turbo Diesel. 40 MPG city. I can live with that, and buy more guns with the savings.  Bill T.

That's the rub...cost.  Governments can be good at big things that business can't support...I mean, if you had a great idea and you would have to spend your own money (never mind where you get it from) for 20 years or so would you be willing to work on it without a paycheck?  This is where I think there are good social progams...research programs. 

The current technology is too expensive...but only because it is too inefficient.  If you could spend the same amount, get more for your dollar, and have it last a couple of decades then OK, which is where research into materials, material properties and base research supported by a government that does not have to turn a profit on a project or starve comes in. 

Also...on the diesel...since the government raised the tax on diesel I don't know if we'll see a plethora of diesel vehicles.  I agree we should, I have an F250 diesel, but with the price of diesel (lower cost to refine, less waste in refining) being artifcially higher because of the government it may be a stretch.  I think diesel is the right answer to offer the public to vote on with their pocketbooks.

In spite of our reactor "Knowledge" over the Soviet Russians, (Or whatever you want to call them now), we still managed to damn near melt down Three Mile Island. ........

As was well known in nuke circles and since has come out in the literature, there were by regulation supposed to be three coolant systems 100% operational at the time of Three Mile Island.  The issue was there was one installed in service, one installed with being fully in service and third on order not hooked up.  The operation at the time was illegal since the three systems were not operational.

Next, all the braintrust diagnosed the problem as problem A and applied solution B...thankfully the problem was B not A. 

They did not want to scram the reactor initially to prevent cooling the beryllium alloy reactor shell too quickly which produces stress cracks and reduces the useful life.  So...they switched over to the 2nd coolant system only to find out it was not fully operational...thence came the meltdown. 

The hydrogen bubble that was the big deal...really was since at temperature hydrogen is highly reactive with the zirconium tubes the uranium is encased in so...actions that increased the bubble size increased the disaster by consuming the zirconium and allowing the uranium to pool up and increase the reaction.  This one nearly got away from us.

Yes...indeed Bill, be concerned for the operators of the plants.

[brosometal]

This seems to be becoming a soap box for energy policy and how it is determined in these United States.  Again, the question was asked, "Who killed the electric car?" The simple answer, i.e. Occam's razor is the market.  The market dictates.  If there was an actual market demand for an efficient electric car there would be one.  Save me the big oil this or the conspiracy that.  The market gets what the market demands. Here is an example that most are unwilling to admit to.  There is a burgeoning  market for illegal drugs of all sorts.  Other than their prohibition, there are no government constraints on these illegal drugs.  Yet if I want to purchase drug A, B, or C I can walk out the door and do so.  Why is that?  Demand.

[billt]

If there was an actual market demand for an efficient electric car there would be one. The market gets what the market demands.

Good point. See my "Good News" thread.   Bill T.

[Tyler Durden]

A-ha...therein lies the rub.

Most people don't know that there are electric cars out there.

How many people have even heard of Tesla motors?

Before I just happened to have stumbled across that documentary just by flipping through the cable channels, I would have never ever heard of the General Motors EV1.  I mean...I never did catch a commercial during the nightly national news plugging GM's new electric car.  Did you?

Or how many have even seen the electric drag racing car "White Zombie" on YouTube?  (I think I linked that video in my OP.)

So if they don't know about it, then how can they demand it?

Conversely....look at all the crap that is sold in late night infomercials.

The EZ cracker for example:



Obviously, they have to pay for the advertising, so they must be selling some of them, so....they created a supply, and through advertising they somehow created a demand for them...somehow....

[billt]

Most people don't know that there are electric cars out there.

How many people have even heard of Tesla motors?

Or how many have even seen the electric drag racing car "White Zombie" on YouTube?  (I think I linked that video in my OP.)

So if they don't know about it, then how can they demand it?

Trust me, They Know About It, They just don't want it because it's an over engineered, over priced piece of crap, compared to what's on the market today. Look, the Tesla is nothing more than an overpriced, Jay Leno toy. Just like his Turbine powered motorcycle. What's a couple hundred grand to Jay, right? Show me an electric car that will go 300 miles without an extension cord, with a 100,000 mile warranty on the batteries, that costs under $30,000.00, and I'll buy it. Provided it won't raise my electric bill more than my gasoline bill is each and every month. This stuff is coming, but it just isn't here yet. Until it is, (at least 30 more years), you're just going to have to get used to making the rag heads rich. I don't like it anymore than you do. but for now there is no other option that is AFFORDABLE!!!   Bill T.

[Sponsor]

[brosometal]

billt beat me to it.  Another way to look at it using your egg cracker deal. 

(BTW is there anyone that is that uncoordinated/lazy?) 

There is a market for useless crap that you can purchase after watching an infomercial.  Billy Mays and his counterparts make a truck load of $$$$ marketing it, but it is there because there is a market for it.  They are just filling the need. 

The electric car may have a small market at present.  If they wish to increase market share, they will need to follow the path set out by billt in his prior post.

[billt]

Besides, I honestly believe if it ever got so bad in this nation, that our commerce was brought to another standstill by some raghead action "boycott" by OPEC, or anyone else who wears bedsheets in 110 degree temperatures, we would intervene militarily. Remember the old bumper sticker from the 70's? "Nuke Their A$$, And Steal Their Gas". That isn't so far fetched. Of course Hussein would let us starve before he did anything of the sort. But conservatives would not! If you think that couldn't happen, then ask yourself why we don't have "Hussein Care" with a 59 vote democratic majority? A third grader can do the math, but Hussein doesn't have the votes. Bribery and all. People in this country aren't so dumb, or weak. The "balls" are still there. We're just not so fast at "unzipping" our fly to show them. Besides, suicide bombers are getting old, weak, and unimpressive. Some of them are actually fun to watch. Should any of us really care if a Shite blows himself up in a Sunni Mosque? To me it is simply fewer muslims. Please explain to me how this is a bad thing???  Bill T.

[Tyler Durden]

UGGG!!!  NOW AN UPDATE...

From another forum, I learned that some other electric cars are having to replace their batteries at about the 100,000 something mile mark.

I guess that wouldn't be so bad, but the cost is in the $7,000 range for the batteries plus close to another $1,000 for the labor.

 

So...Uggg...no thanks.

For $8K, you might as well go looking for a used gasoline powered car.   

Oh...well...

A'yup, ya'll were right.  These gasoline powered cars are here to stay for quite some time still. 

It still would be nice to the A-rabs to ....well...you know....

I guess maybe my next car or truck will be diesel, so I can try running my own homemade biodiesel through that.

[billt]

UGGG!!!  NOW AN UPDATE...

From another forum, I learned that some other electric cars are having to replace their batteries at about the 100,000 something mile mark.

I guess that wouldn't be so bad, but the cost is in the $7,000 range for the batteries plus close to another $1,000 for the labor.

 

So...Uggg...no thanks.

For $8K, you might as well go looking for a used gasoline powered car.

The other thing the "green society" doesn't want you to know about is how bad the batteries are. Most of them contain Cadmium, and a lot of other heavy metals that make Cancer grow like fleas on a dirty dog. Electric is good, but a lot like Hydrogen. The fuel, (Carbon based), costs more than the electric it produces.

If we really wanted to do something that would make a difference, we would do what Russia does with their airliners. They are towed from the gate to the end of the runway. They then start their engines, and immediately take off. Upon arriving at their destination they pull off the runway, SHUT DOWN and are towed to the gate. Russia saves millions of barrels of oil doing this. Also they never "stack" aircraft. They reroute them to open airports to get them out of the sky as quickly as possible. Remember, a fully loaded 747 burns one gallon per second at cruise. And it is considered a fuel efficient aircraft. That's 60 gallons a minute, 3,600 gallons per hour. If they could save 2% of that it would make driving a Prius look worse than the kid with his finger in the dike!  Bill T.

[Timothy]

UGGG!!!  NOW AN UPDATE...
A'yup, ya'll were right.  These gasoline powered cars are here to stay for quite some time still. 

It still would be nice to the A-rabs to ....well...you know....

I'm sure you're aware that most of the crude we refine here in the US comes from Canada and not from the middle east.  We can't even refine much of what comes in from Alaska for domestic uses.  I don't know about heating oil and diesel production.

I don't agree or disagree with anything else.