The 1911 Sucks.

[ratcatcher55]

Because the Beretta sucks compared to other comparable pistols (IMHO), and 9mm isn't enough gun for combat? . I mean its a fine round for civilian carry, but if I were made the Army's pistol Tsar for one day, the troops would be carrying Glocks in .45 or 10mm. Its idiot proof, reliable, affordable, high capacity and in either 10 mm or .45, as close to a man stopper as you are going to get in a pistol.a
FQ13

I think you will find it was a matter of logistics. Almost everyone in NATO was using 9mm pistols so we changed over to keep a common ammo.  Likewise  when we adopted the 5.56 cartridge, NATO countries began to field rifles in the same caliber.

We picked the Berretta because there was a small savings per pistol over the Sig.  When that is mulitpled by a few hundred thousand pistols, someone in procurement can claim a huge savings.

So everytime you piss and moan about using a 9mm pistol remember there is some poor Brit or German carrying a poodle shooter because of Uncle Sam.

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

There is absolutly nothing wrong with a beretta. It is an utterly reliable gun, so is the Sig. They both require a little maintenence. The problem is 124 gr ball ammo. A good hollow point would correct that problem.

[tombogan03884]

I will note in advance that I'm mostly a .357 Mag revolver guy.
I have a Rock Island 1911 I paid $360 for that has been 100% right out of the box for nearly 2000 rounds, all of which went exactly where I put them even with JMB's less than ideal sights. And steel will always be more durable than plastic except to a dumbass.
So all the 1911 bashers can KMA.

[fightingquaker13]

I will note in advance that I'm mostly a .357 Mag revolver guy.
I have a Rock Island 1911 I paid $360 for that has been 100% right out of the box for nearly 2000 rounds, all of which went exactly where I put them even with JMB's less than ideal sights. And steel will always be more durable than plastic except to a dumbass.So all the 1911 bashers can KMA.

I agree with your first point. The rust buckets are a good gun. As to steel being more durable than plastic? Survey says no. Its strong, rustproof and every bit as tough and stronger pound for pound. Obviously this has limits, which is why the moving parts are metal. Still, there's a reason body armor isn't made of metal anymore. Frankly, I'd carry a 1911 as a duty piece anytime, and I'd love to buy (someday) a basic 1911 like the Rock Island. But for me, DAO is the way to go. A gun designed for combat should first be made to work all the time. Second, you make it as easy to maintain in the field as posible. Third you remove anything that can possibly go wrong that isn't neccesary to the essential function. Steps 2 and 3 are where for me, the various tupperware DAOs are preferable to the 1911s. Still, thats just me. YMMV.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

I agree with your first point. The rust buckets are a good gun. As to steel being more durable than plastic? Survey says no. Its strong, rustproof and every bit as tough and stronger pound for pound. Obviously this has limits, which is why the moving parts are metal. Still, there's a reason body armor isn't made of metal anymore. Frankly, I'd carry a 1911 as a duty piece anytime, and I'd love to buy (someday) a basic 1911 like the Rock Island. But for me, DAO is the way to go. A gun designed for combat should first be made to work all the time. Second, you make it as easy to maintain in the field as posible. Third you remove anything that can possibly go wrong that isn't neccesary to the essential function. Steps 2 and 3 are where for me, the various tupperware DAOs are preferable to the 1911s. Still, thats just me. YMMV.
FQ13

Apparently it does.   

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

I agree with your first point. The rust buckets are a good gun. As to steel being more durable than plastic? Survey says no. Its strong, rustproof and every bit as tough and stronger pound for pound. Obviously this has limits, which is why the moving parts are metal. Still, there's a reason body armor isn't made of metal anymore. Frankly, I'd carry a 1911 as a duty piece anytime, and I'd love to buy (someday) a basic 1911 like the Rock Island. But for me, DAO is the way to go. A gun designed for combat should first be made to work all the time. Second, you make it as easy to maintain in the field as posible. Third you remove anything that can possibly go wrong that isn't neccesary to the essential function. Steps 2 and 3 are where for me, the various tupperware DAOs are preferable to the 1911s. Still, thats just me. YMMV.
FQ13

Not to argue with you this time, FQ, because you make a valid point. Just adding my own personal mileage as a continuation of your thoughts.....

I'd rather didassemble a 1911 than any other gun I own. They are not that complicated. Simplistic in their genious. You can totally disassemble it without tools using the parts of the gun itself as 'tools'.
If you don't load them down with the latest gizmo and tactical do-dad of the moment, they will go bang every time if used as the designer intended.
Use the gun as it was designed.

I trust my Glock as much as I do any of my 1911's.....(it is my primary CCW gun these days due to size)....even though my Glock hasn't been tested over the same period of time as my 1911's.....that being said, I love my 1911's.....my Glock is just a tool.

 

[billt]

"I don’t say it to be confrontational, or to draw attention to myself."

That is precisely why he said it, and exactly what he did. This is nothing more than the ravings of a typical bored mall ninja with a hormone problem. They're all over ARFCOM and m4Kool-Aid.net. These guys are usually late teens to early 30's something cool jerks. They're getting easier and easier to pick out. Usually because they make silly stupid comments like what this guy did. It's usually the only way they can get any attention, simply because they don't know anything worth listening to. So they try to garner an audience for themselves by trying to raise every one's blood pressure. They are smart enough to know a fist can't come through a monitor.

They will always bash older designs, while at the same time go on another thread and slobber over some guys "retro build". They contradict themselves, many times in the same thread. A 1911 has to be made right. Many cheaper ones aren't. But you can say that about any design.

It's a big pistol, but so is the M-9. The M-9 holds more ammo, but so does an M-16 compared to the Garand, and we've yet to win a war with it. And even the ammo capacity issue has been addressed with the double stack Para guns. I can understand why someone would not prefer the gun, but to say "It is unsafe for 95% of it's users to carry", is pure stupidity, and shows he doesn't even understand the design itself, or how it operates. Another thing is if the design is so poor and dangerous, why is it the standard platform most every Bianchi Cup Race Gun is built off of?

He then goes on to slam Jeff Cooper. What was the purpose of that if not to set even more people off? He knows that most of the people who like and prefer the 1911 also like Jeff Coopers words about it. So why not piss them off even more by slamming not only the gun, but one of it's biggest supporters? This guy reads like a woman picking a fight because it's "that time of the month". The worst thing you can do is get pulled into it. Much like a woman on the rag, they are best left alone until their hormones re stabilize. Personally I'd rather try to deprime Berdan cases with my teeth, than give this asshat the time of day.  Bill T.  

[Timothy]

If you don't load them down with the latest gizmo and tactical do-dad of the moment, they will go bang every time if used as the designer intended.

Use the gun as it was designed.

And THAT is it in a nutshell.  My first post on this forum way back some years ago said basically the same thing.  This design was created to WORK and was designed loosely, for easy dis-assembly and cleaning and to work with a bit of crud.  It was never made for bulls-eye competition. 

The biggest problem with the 1911 is the PEOPLE who aren't satisfied with something that works and f..k it up by "improving" it!

[ellis4538]

I agree, "The 1911 Sucks"  Anyone wishing to get rid of any 1911 PM me and I will send my address.  I will be sure to see they get what they deserve!

Richard

[gunman42782]

The 1911 is the finest handgun ever made, bar none.  Have owned many over the years, have a couple now, a Kimber and a Colt, which both have worked first time, every time, out of the box.   The guy keeps complaining it is a 100 year old design.  Exactly.  And it is still going strong.  Speaks for itself.