Pistol caliber AR's....anyone? anyone?

[Tyler Durden]

Hi all,

I have been jones'ing for a pistol caliber AR for a while now.  Oh, about 6 months back I went on AR15.com to gather intell or gouge on them, but MAN-OH-MAN! there are so many danged different options and doo-dads you could go with, I was overwhelmed.

So if you have a pistol caliber AR, I'd like to hear about it?

Did you buy it off the shelf?

Did you build it?

What kind of mags are running with it?

Just recently I saw on the Olympic Arms website that they make a magazine that is .223/AR15ish in outside dimensions (so it will fit your AR lower) but on the inside is meant to fit 9mm, .40, 10mm or .45 ACP.

I thought that was pretty cool.

Then I was messaging a guy back and forth about his Colt 9mm AR and he said because it is strictly a blow back design that the bolt traveling back and forth makes a funny or loud sound with the buffer.

Then it struck me....if Para-Ordnance is making those ZM pattern AR's with the folding stocks and the operating rod is tucked up under the forearm, just above the barrel....that could make a fun little gun.  A 9mm AR with a folding stock.

I'll take a side charging handle on mine, too, please.   

What say you?

[MikeBjerum]

I have shot an M16 and an H&K w/supressor - both in 9 Luger

They were fun, but rather than going with a 9mm I'd just go to a .22lr  There is very little difference in the feel of the 9mm vs. a .22lr, and since they would both just be plinking toys why not save the money on the ammo?

[Tyler Durden]

One of the reasons is that I cast bullets and reload.  reloading .223 is kind of a pain.  semi-auto pistol rounds are so much easier with my cAsefeeder equipped Dillon 650.  :-)

the other reason is that some of our IDPA pistol matches will have carbine matches after the regular pistol part is over.

I do kinda dabble in 3 gun competitions but around here the ranges are close enough that you don't need the reach of the .223 .

lastly, it would just be fun!

[fightingquaker13]

Tyler:
Basfu found an ineresting carbine called the JR (Just Right ). Its a .45, 9mm, or .40 on an AR type frame and takes Glock mags. It can also be converted to several other brands. Its a bit pricy at $800, but interesting. Here is the link I posted.
FQ13

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=14464.0

[billt]

This is my Rock River Arms LAR-9, 9 MM Carbine. I've had very good luck with this gun, and a lot of fun! This thing is a hoot to shoot! It differs from most other 9 MM AR's in that the lower is machined from solid as a dedicated 9 MM weapon. Colt and several others press in a block into the magwell. Some guys like this better because you can then convert the gun back to a .223 / 5.56 MM if you desire to do so. That didn't interest me because I have several .223 AR's, and wanted a dedicated 9 MM gun.

This gun runs well with Colt, C-Products, as well as Pro Mag magazines. Although getting the last 5 to 10 rounds in is a tight fit. It is a blowback design, and the bolt is quite a bit heavier than the standard AR-15 bolt. The gun is a breeze to take apart and clean. All I do is pull the rear retaining pin, then pull out the bolt and charging handle. The only thing left to disassemble is to remove the firing pin retaining pin, and the firing pin, along with a little spring pops out, and that's it. It just takes a few minutes to clean everything, relube and assemble. I can do it in about one third the time it takes me to clean a standard .223 Direct Impingement AR-15. There are no bolt lugs, along with all of the nooks and crannies for carbon and crud to gather. Recoil is surprising for a 9 MM because of the heavy bolt. The gun shoots well at long range also. I have no trouble ringing 12" steel gongs out at 200 yards at my club range.

The problem is I can't get the thing away from Melanie when we go shooting. She ends up doing most of the shooting, and I end up being the magazine loader. I have several extra magazines that I load up before we go, but she'll blast through those in no time. If you're serious about a 9 MM AR-15 rifle you would be hard pressed to find a better one. I looked at a Colt and almost bought it, but I'm really glad I didn't. The Colt was almost $2,000.00, and I picked this Rock River up for about half that.  Bill T.

[Sponsor]

[tommy tornado]

I concur with Billt about going with a Rock River.  I have a Varmit Rifle and a mid-length 6.8 spc from Rock River and they are awesome.  I have thought about getting a pistol carbine as well later this year or next.  Good luck with the purchase.

[2HOW]

Makes a lot of sense to have a carbine in the same caliber as your hand gun. Pistol calibers can be very effective coming out of a longer barrel and sharing ammo is easy. Have shot the 9mm AR , fun but odd.

[twyacht]

Alright Tyler, I received some goodies via the mail, including the 2011 Black Guns Buyers Guide.

They have a Hi-Point Carbine, "Black Guns On A Budget" article. Made in the USA, 9mm MSRP, $274, .40 S&W, $315, or 45ACP, $330.

The 45, Model 4595TS, was tested. Rails, skeletonized AR rear stock, (adjustable),....comes with iron sights, but the tested one had a BSA Red-Dot, and vertical grip from Tango Down.

Comes with 5 mags. 17.5" barrel, OA length 33", 7.5lbs. 9+1 capacity.

Groups ranged at 25yds, .77"- 1.71" 5shot group. 943fps-1528fps depending on ammo. 

http://hi-pointfirearms.com/carbines/carbines_45caliber.html

Happy New Year......

[fightingquaker13]

Five mags at $330? Damn! Hi-Point does believe in value for the dollar. I have complained about the fact that their mags are only 10 rounds (about as much fun as a $100 credit card ) and proprietary, but throwing in five of them goes a long way towards shutting me up. Asuming the groupings hold, .77" at 25 yards should give you around 4" at 100 yards. I'll take that in a pistol carbine. Not ideal, but at that price, I can learn to live with it. Now, if only they didn't look I'd joined the space marines.
FQ13

[Overload]

I LOVE pistol caliber carbines, and love the idea of having a pistol and rifle in the same caliber and even using the same magazines.
I have both a Carbine Conversion Unit (uses the lower of a pistol with the CCU upper), and a Marlin camp carbine, both of which are in  and use 1911 45acp magazines.
I don't have a pistol caliber AR.

Just remember, at the end of the day, a pistol caliber carbine is still firing pistol cartridges, and therefore pistol ranges of 100yards and under.  Even the M1 Carbine is only effective to 300yards, and is somewhat unusual to find in a pistol (yea Automag III!)

You'd think 357mag or 44mag would make a good carbine rifle, and they do, just not a good magazine-loaded semi-auto carbine.  The SASS boys use a lot of lever carbines in these calibers, and there's the old Ruger Deerfield with its weird rotary mag. 
I HAVE been wanting to pickup a Coonan, the .357mag 1911, just not bad enough to pay what they're going for.

OTOH, I'm weird and want to get a Randall or Safari Arms Lefty/mirror 1911.