9 MM 1911's ??

[cdcasey]

I've had a Kimber Pro Carry II in 9mm for about 3 years now and countless rounds thru it.  I can feed it steel case, brass, fmj, hp, you name it and it eats it like a champ.  Also I run the factory mag and MecGar mags (both made by mecgar) with no problems.  Never a problem except trying to get it back at the range from friends and family as well!!!

[DGF]

Hmmmm, who designed the 1911 super 38?

[alfsauve]

Bah Humbug !
The only real 1911 is a .45 ACP, and the only real .45 ACP is a 1911 !

Well I thought I had posted along this thought but I guess I forget to click on <POST>

I'm not a 1911 addict, but to me anything other than .45ACP is just not right.

Now, about the second half of Tom's quote:   Real men shoot .45ACP in wheel guns.  Either a Model 25 or 625.

[tombogan03884]

Well I thought I had posted along this thought but I guess I forget to click on <POST>

I'm not a 1911 addict, but to me anything other than .45ACP is just not right.

Now, about the second half of Tom's quote:   Real Girly men who can't handle .45 Colt shoot .45ACP in wheel guns.  Either a Model 25 or 625.

Why bother when you can have .45 Colt in a revolver?

[billt]

I've had a Kimber Pro Carry II in 9mm for about 3 years now and countless rounds thru it.  I can feed it steel case, brass, fmj, hp, you name it and it eats it like a champ.  Also I run the factory mag and MecGar mags (both made by mecgar) with no problems.  Never a problem except trying to get it back at the range from friends and family as well!!!

I'm finding the same thing with 9 MM 1911's as I do with Glocks. The people who have them love them, and the people who hate them don't. As far as all of this stuff about, "The .45 ACP is what it was designed for!", most all semi's today shoot all 3 of the most popular calibers. 9 MM, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Even the Browning Hi-Power now comes in .40. All of the H&K semi's, as well as the Glocks and XD's all have caliber choices. And if you think about it why shouldn't they? It's common sense.

As long as reliability isn't effected there is no reason not to have a diversification of calibers avaliable in a given platform. Even Luger tried to sell his design to the United States military in .45 ACP. I believe the only one that exists is currently regarded as the most valuable pistol in the world. I already have 4, 1911's, all of them in .45 ACP. It would be nice to have something different, not to mention more cost effective to shoot. The 9 MM is still very affordable, yet delivers enough punch as not to be boring after 50 rounds or so like a .22 gets to be at times. The 9 MM is a much better performer today than it was 30 years ago with the modern defensive ammunition that is currently avaliable from just about any manufacturer. It's reason enough for me at least to own one.  Bill T.

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[Badgersmilk]

I'm on board with a lot of billt's points of view.  But, the only reason .40 exists is the market was saturated with 9mm, and .45.  So how do you move product?  Compromise them both and market it as "the best of both worlds".  At it's heart, that's ALL .40 is.  A compromise.  If you mix shi# and gold, all you've got is a shiny turd.  BUT, when the gun magazines and tv shows talk about nothing else, weak minded buyers are suckered right in.

Why's 9mm not completely extinct?  In a word.  Movies!  Actors are typically the type to be intimidated by .45's behavior when fired.  Then ninja's see their favorite actor using it, and walla!  Sale complete!  Evidence to those who wonder how many movie ninja's there are in the world opposed to rational thinking persons seriously concerned with practical self defense.  My favorite thing to hear is "Well, my 9mm holds 17 rounds!  Your .45 hold what?  10?"  You go ninja!  SERIOUSLY, what is the scenario where you need even 10 rounds?   Your thinking of movie scenes already aren't you?  

All that said.  Yeah, I'm tempted to buy a 9mm just because billt is 100% right. While I LOVE it, .22 gets pretty boring at the range after a few magazines worth.  And everybody likes a bigger "BOOM"!  Do I wanna burn through 500 rounds of .45acp every trip to the range?  HECK YEAH!!! Wait, It's not worth having to get a second mortgage on my house to fund.  

[tombogan03884]

Before you go trashing the 9mm remember that it was developed about the same time as the .45ACP.
While it may have been developed with different criteria in mind longevity makes one just as valid as the other.

[ratcatcher55]

Does anyone own and shoot one?

Is that called a Browning High Power?

[Badgersmilk]

Remember the French "Le Car"?  There were also amazing Porsches made in that era.  Timeline just doesn't matter here.

Almost any real world application is going to get into is better served by .380acp, or .45acp than 9mil.  Sure, there is that 1 chance you'll need to shoot 22 bad guys through the windshield of a speeding car tommarow.  But I'm willing to accept that I will be under armed in that scenario, and probably just run!  

Is .45 perfect for every realistic application?  Not in my opinion.  That's why you buy a LCP for every member of your family!

Ruger, you can pm me for the address of where to send my royalty checks for that one.  

[billt]

But, the only reason .40 exists is the market was saturated with 9mm, and .45.  So how do you move product?  Compromise them both and market it as "the best of both worlds".  At it's heart, that's ALL .40 is.  A compromise.

The .40 is the one thing besides revolvers Smith & Wesson got right. At least from a marketing standpoint. When the FBI got the living crap shot out of them in the 1986 Miami shootout, they decided to go to 10 MM auto's as a replacement to the revolvers many of their agents were carrying at the time. After they were outfitted with the new 10 MM round, many were having a lot of difficulty shooting and qualifying with it. Especially female agents. So they went to a reduced power 10 MM round that gave them better control.

S&W saw this and got the idea of shortening the 10 MM and wah la, the .40 S&W was born. All it was is a sort of "10 MM Special". But it is controllable, or at least more so than the 10 MM with full power loads. I don't shoot the .40 because when you get right down to it you get twice the recoil with only a 10% gain in muzzle energy over a similar loaded 9 MM.

I have nothing "against" the .40 S&W, it's just there isn't enough of a gap to fill between a high performance 9 MM and a .45 ACP any longer with all of the excellent high performance, self defense ammo on the market today. But guns for it sell like hot cakes. And when you're in the gun business, that's all that matters.  Bill T.