G&A "Handguns" review of Hornady handgun ammo

[pioneer]

If I may play Devil's advocate here:  Sounds as if Metcalf is making a common assumption that armed citizens in a self defense situation, should not be shooting through barriers.  Ever!  In some cases shooting at someone behind a barrier could be considered reckless, simply because there may be more folks (hostages, by-standers, etc.) behind the barrier, than just the shooter.  If innocent lives are placed in danger, I would agree with his assumption.  But as with many ass-umptions about shooting situations, there is no way to know.  Sometimes it may be appropriate, but each event has to be judged on it's own merit.

Basic firearm safety rules demand that we should never shoot until our sights are on the target, and we are certain of our background.  If our adversary is behind a wall, there is no way we can have him in our sights, and there is no way to be certain of who, or what else may be there. 

Law enforcement folks need to follow the same basic safety rules as everyone else, because there is a lawyer attached to each and every bullet that leaves a gun, even a cop's gun.  Maybe, especially a cop's gun. 

I think what we are seeing is marketing hype on the part of Hornady.  I like, and carry their product in some of my pistols.  I presently carry Critical Defense in 3 calibers.  I wonder if there is really a difference between Critical Defense and Critical Duty?  If you can make someone believe they are getting a bite of the forbidden fruit, they will be willing to pay a higher price for it.

[twyacht]

In the ol' Valhalla days, The Pincus, demonstrated a home defense tactic of shooting through barriers, ex. interior hollow core doors, common sheetrock for interior walls, especially if known multiple threats exist, ....BUT....always knowing the threat is of a lethal nature, acknowledging and possessing a situational awareness of your particular environment. (apts. condos,) etc, and if not plausible, it simply is not part of the program...

Moreover, the individual variables will be different for each SD situation.

But the old addage applies.....

If your fighting fair in an SD, critical dynamic threat situation, ............

your tactics suck...

[billt]

Sounds as if Metcalf is making a common assumption that armed citizens in a self defense situation, should not be shooting through barriers.  Ever!

I'll buy that. Then why shouldn't it apply to cops as well? When is a cop more justified to shoot than a citizen, especially if it's going to pose a hazard if and when he does it? You can argue the whole apprehension thing, but look at how many innocents have been killed in high speed chases. Many started with nothing more than a traffic violation. This can only be worse when you add firearms and shooting into the equation.

[tombogan03884]

I'll buy that. Then why shouldn't it apply to cops as well? When is a cop more justified to shoot than a citizen, especially if it's going to pose a hazard if and when he does it? You can argue the whole apprehension thing, but look at how many innocents have been killed in high speed chases. Many started with nothing more than a traffic violation. This can only be worse when you add firearms and shooting into the equation.

What a maroon.
You are putting commonsense and "officialdom" into the same sentence.
That never ends well.

[ellis4538]

"EVER" is a long time.  I believe shooting thru auto glass and or auto sheet metal is unfounded unless the bg is trying to run me or my family over therefore I shouldn't need C Duty ammo.  I can see shooting thru a wall or door if I am certain my family is safely out of the line of fire and I am very certain the bg can be hit and for this C Defense should work well.  That being said, if I do shoot thru a door or wall I stand the chance of any round exiting the house and hitting a neighbor!  "Ever" starts to make more sense then.

JMHOFWIW

Richard

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

It's quite possible that you may need to shoot an armed carjacker through the door of your own vehicle.
There was a case a year or 2 ago posted on here where a guy opened his truck door to get in and a robber pointed a gun at his head, the intended victim shot through the door, the BG was hit but because the rounds lost so much going through the metal he was not badly injured and ran away.

[Solus]

I'll buy that. Then why shouldn't it apply to cops as well? When is a cop more justified to shoot than a citizen, especially if it's going to pose a hazard if and when he does it? You can argue the whole apprehension thing, but look at how many innocents have been killed in high speed chases. Many started with nothing more than a traffic violation. This can only be worse when you add firearms and shooting into the equation.

Actually I've often wondered why cops aren't  held to higher standards in regards to justified shootings and collateral damage...they are the professionals and should be making better snap decisions and not react as strongly under stress at a citizen..and should be more aware of where their shots will go than plain citizens...
 

[billt]

Actually I've often wondered why cops aren't  held to higher standards in regards to justified shootings and collateral damage...they are the professionals and should be making better snap decisions and not react as strongly under stress at a citizen..and should be more aware of where their shots will go than plain citizens...

I've heard that argument given for CCW holders as well.

[TAB]

Actually I've often wondered why cops aren't  held to higher standards in regards to justified shootings and collateral damage...they are the professionals and should be making better snap decisions and not react as strongly under stress at a citizen..and should be more aware of where their shots will go than plain citizens...
 

Its simple, they have more political power.  It makes me sick.  I've never understood why goverment employees, are not held to the same standard( at the very least) as the rest of us.   More would be better.

[billt]

Its simple, they have more political power.  It makes me sick.  I've never understood why goverment employees, are not held to the same standard( at the very least) as the rest of us.   More would be better.

Very true. There are all type of police shootings that get swept under the rug. Just Google the Erik Scott COSTCO shooting in Las Vegas.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/gunned-down-in-vegas-what-really-happened-to-erik-scott/

It drew a lot of bad press for the Las Vegas Metro Police. They have had multiple questionable shootings over the years regarding the use of deadly force. Not one has resulted in any kind of disciplinary action taken against the department, or a single officer. If those same shootings involved citizens, there would be a lot of people in jail with felony convictions.