Training vs gaming

[tombogan03884]

I started this thread to calmly  state some thoughts on something I had not previously given much thought to without some ones attitude distracting from my point.
There is no point of debate, or room for it, since these are simply some thoughts I had on the subject as stated in the OP.
Since this is essentially a judgement call on the part of the individual participant your opinion, stated, and restated ad nuaseum, is no more or less valid than any one else's.
In fact, now that I think about it, your opinion is probably less valid , being influenced by your apparently avid participation in the games.
If that bothers you I can only direct you to one of your own posts

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=14651.msg252170#msg252170

[Steven Cline]

I started this thread to calmly point state some thoughts on something I had not previously given much thought to without some ones attitude distracting from my point.
There is no point of debate, or room for it, since these are simply some thoughts I had on the subject as stated in the OP.
Since this is essentially a judgement call on the part of the individual participant your opinion, stated, and restated ad nuaseum, is no more or less valid than any one else's.
In fact, now that I think about it, your opinion is probably less valid , being influenced by your apparently avid participation in the games.
If that bothers you I can only direct you to one of your own posts

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=14651.msg252170#msg252170

I'm sorry- you throw up a challenge, pretending to be subtle, get nuked, and suggest I could have bowed out gracefully?

When are you even going to post a valid point in support of your positions?

[ellis4538]

Steven, I respectfully disagree about standards and your preception thereof!  I have shot/competed with individuals from many different branches of LE and find that many (more than I would have believed) leave because they don't want to be put to shame in competition!  This tells me they wouldn't fare well or haven't, in the real world either whereas those who stay have done/do well in real world situations "under the gun".  Those that stay came in as top notch LEO's, gun handelers and shots and get better.  There is no need for them to be there but they stay because they see things that help them every day.  I have watched this trend for over 25 years.  Some, as TO, even take USPSA/IDPA back and use it as part of training for their officers!  I have watched them train and some of the things they do are too dangerous for words and more dangerous than USPSA/IDPA COF have ever been and I see a lot of what is done in USPSA/IDPA used in this training.  I beleive that when the shoe drops their training takes over and they go home at the end of the day!  This is not to say that USPSA/IDPA makes everyone, myself included, a prime candidate for the FBI Hostage Rescue Unit or any LEO agency for that matter, but I do feel confident I can walk into the local "Stop & Rob", walk out, and enjoy the rest of the day when I get home.

Richard

 

[JLawson]

I just read today's "The Tactical Wire" and got a little surprise.  Here's a guy with "credentials" that suggests training may not be all that important for the average citizen... at least not the type of training we're told we must have if we are to have any chance of survival.  Yet another opinion to confuse the issue.

http://www.thetacticalwire.com/features/226115

[tombogan03884]

FTA
"Is the difference in "power", reliability and functional accuracy significant? Especially when most of us admit that the term "powerful handgun" is an oxymoron at best and a dichotomy at worst. When the results of encounters between criminals and private citizens are scrutinized there's not much evidence to support that contention. I have asked the training community to provide me documented examples of incidents where a private citizen was injured after shooting an attacker with a small caliber handgun. To date, the silence has been deafening."


Good point, I guarantee such cases exist, simply because "crap happens", but not frequently enough for most, if any, to be able to recall them off the top of their head.
On the other hand violent criminals get shot, and frequently killed, by 60+ year old Grandmothers with amusing regularity.
No one with any sense can deny that a .22 LR in your pocket is a more effective weapon than the .44 Magnum that you left at home.
It also seems to be fairly common that the guns used in self defense shootings were put in drawers and closets then ignored for years until that one critical moment when their 20 year old ammunition  saved a home owners life.

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

Anytime someone tells me I MUST have what he's selling my hearing fails me!

Interesting article from a seasoned professional!  Something that is lacking in a lot of these so called "experts"!

[jaybet]

Sounds like a trigger puller turned button pusher. Wait, that's not it... I'm afraid I'm woefully uninformed on how much training I might need so I shouldn't have an opinion about that.
Better get out to the range.
Does Call of Duty count?

[Magoo541]

Does Call of Duty count?

If it didn't half of the net-ninjas wouldn't have anything to talk about!

I love shooting the solo mission reactive target course, I swear I'm getting better on my recoil management 

[MikeBjerum]

If it didn't half of the net-ninjas wouldn't have anything to talk about!

I love shooting the solo mission reactive target course, I swear I'm getting better on my recoil management 

In the words of Sheriff Charlie in Wild Hogs:

For firearm training they just told us to play Doom.

[DGF]

To me, Claude Werner's article hits the nail on the head. The statistics say that there are hundreds of thousand of incidents every year where a firearm  in the hands of ordinary citizens of both sexes has prevented a crime. I would guess that the great majority of those citizens have not had any great tactical training. In fact I would guess that the training they got was more like the training we get when we learn to ride a bicycle. My Grandfather and my Father taught me how to shoot. They also taught me about gun safety.

I shot trap for some years and I know that helped me in the downing of Pheasants and Grouse. I guess if I could hit a Grouse I could hit a bad guy coming into my house without having had any "Tactical" training. Putting rounds downrange under any circumstance can not be anything but good. My Grandfather and Father were very adamant about accuracy. If you can't hit your target what good is having a gun? It is the same as the old joke about how you get to Carnegie Hall. The answer of course is Practice, Practice, Practice.

From what I can see there is not much difference between people that want to be tactically trained and those that compete in shooting games. I carried the 1911 when I in the Army and I went through the minimal training that the Army uses. It was less than what Dad taught me about shooting Trap. I think average citizens that get serious enough about guns and self protection and spend thousands of dollars to be tactically trained are deluding themselves. Go to the range, learn how to hit a target, if you are any good enter some competitions, but forget the Ninja crap. And I agree the best caliber weapon to have is the one you are willing to carry on a daily basis and that includes .22s. And don't tell me that getting hit with three rapidly fired .22s won't make you rethink what you are attempting to do. It ruins your whole day.