Downrange radio #283 Auschwitz and the 2nd Amendment

[tombogan03884]

Actually Joe I think I beat you to "Rise and Fall" by a couple years.
Any one who reads what we both have posted about European Kings scapegoating the Jews because the King owed them so much money needs to remember what happened to the Templar's.
The King of France owed them a butt load of money , so rather than pay he trumped up "witchcraft/heresy charges, imprisoned or killed all he could catch and seized all their French assets.

[Jrlobo]

Unfortunately I had the good fortune (?) to visit Dachau when I was 10 years old in 1952. It wasn't the prettied up visiting center that is is today. It leaves an impression on me to this day of man's inhumanity to man and unconstrained government's willingness to do bad in the name of good. We should not let our government slippery-slope us into the same situation. The Second Amendment, and our continued vigilance, is the only thing that prevents us from recreating a Dachau. Now I understand why my Dad took me there.

[tombogan03884]

Always remember that Dachau and the rest were a classic example of Bureaucrats in action.

"Just make the system work, regardless of effect,morality, or consequences."
They weren't "evil", they were paper pushers and bean counters with to much power.

[Solus]

You might find the Milgram Experiment interesting.  

It was conducted shortly after the start of Adolf Eichmann trial in 1961.

Milgram's testing suggested that it could have been that the millions of accomplices were merely following orders, despite violating their deepest moral beliefs. The experiments have been repeated many times, with consistent results within societies, but different percentages across the globe.[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

There was also a movie starring William Shatner based on that study.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tenth_Level

And another experiment

The Third Wave was an experiment to demonstrate that even democratic societies are not immune to the appeal of fascism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

And it's novel/movie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_%28novel%29

[tombogan03884]

From the Wiki link

"Milgram argued that the ethical criticism provoked by his experiments was because his findings were disturbing and revealed unwelcome truths about human nature"

This experiment completely discredits the "humanist" idea that people are basically good and will "do the right thing" if given a choice thereby completely undermining the entire liberal philosophy as currently espoused.

[Sponsor]

[JoeG]

From the Wiki link

"Milgram argued that the ethical criticism provoked by his experiments was because his findings were disturbing and revealed unwelcome truths about human nature"

This experiment completely discredits the "humanist" idea that people are basically good and will "do the right thing" if given a choice thereby completely undermining the entire liberal philosophy as currently espoused.

I am not sure I would go that far with  the data. It showed what we already knew: that humans are a social animal and have a very deep drive to be part of the herd/tribe/pack. This drive is more primal than being civilized and can be used to warp people into shockingly brutal behaviors.

The value of civilization is in committing to a higher purpose to temper this inner drive. Unfortunately humanisms idea that what feels good is best misses the reality of our animal nature.

So maybe I am willing to go that far!

I AGREE WITH TOM!

Joe

[JoeG]

I also wanted to mention that the National Holocaust Museum in DC is very powerful and more accessible. I went through it just after it opened and it was able to take the facts (that I already knew) and turn them into experiences that brought the reality home. I will never forget walking into a small room that was wallpapered in actual photos of the piles of hair, clothes and personal items stripped from the inmates before they were led to the showers. Being surrounded by a pile of hair 10 feet high made my guts clench.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/

I came out of the museum committed to "Never Again" in my life even though I am not Jewish.

[Solus]

I also wanted to mention that the National Holocaust Museum in DC is very powerful and more accessible. I went through it just after it opened and it was able to take the facts (that I already knew) and turn them into experiences that brought the reality home. I will never forget walking into a small room that was wallpapered in actual photos of the piles of hair, clothes and personal items stripped from the inmates before they were led to the showers. Being surrounded by a pile of hair 10 feet high made my guts clench.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/

I came out of the museum committed to "Never Again" in my life even though I am not Jewish.

[/b]

Being Jewish has not much to do with it....being Human does.

Anyone who is not committed to "Never Again" is sub-human, a rabid dog, as far as I am concerned.

Denying the Holocaust happened, in light of the overwhelming and brutal evidence, is simply a way to try to avert attention from the fact that you are vermin needing extermination.


That commitment, btw, is a major factor in the solution to the social pressure of 'belonging to the herd' and the atrocities that can allow.

[tombogan03884]

It wasn't just the German Jews, it's just that they got the most PR.
Turkish Armenians in 1915,"the "Kulaks" (Ukranian farmers ) during the early 1920's, Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda.
Just to name a few.