Please answer the question how much do you shoot in competition?

[CJS3]

I used to shoot IDPA every week , but stopped a couple of years ago. I never seem to have time, anymore, to practice and shoot on a regular basis.

[m25operator]

Hodman, I do not disagree, competition as a compliment to training go's hand in hand. Now like imperfect training makes imperfect scores or bad habits. I would first say, "what do you want out of competition?" If you want to compliment your training, then do as you were taught, if it is legal in that sport, use the firearm you want to be great with, and use the techniques you were taught if legal. If your a personal defense/tactical type, then shoot the match that way. What competition does besides adding  stress, is give you measureable results to your progress. My line has always been " competition teaches me to think, with a gun in my hands". I also think competition makes you reach farther into yourself, than you would if you were alone.

If you want to win trophy's then play that way, get gamie, if thats your cup of tea.
If you want to be really accurate, then play that type of game, and do you want to be accurate offhand, in position or off the bench, there is a game for each.

I have one of those personalities that if I can't be really good, I don't want to play. Except for sporting clays, I don't suck, but I'm not competitive. I just don't want to put in the time and money to be great at that, but I do like the game.

My resume.

Started shooting competition in 1982, mainly to become a better what we call now, " tactical shooter"

Ipsc in the old days when we shot off ropes and ramps, from moving vehicles and over 12' high walls. We did weak hand draws, weak hand reloads, weak hand clearance drills that would make a modern day range officer have a coronary. We had hot ranges where your hand gun was loaded all the time you were there. This was truly  Mecca, We were doing real world drills as a learning curve and I still have these skills today. This was the very practical side of Ipsc. Then it went gamie and I did not want to play, I wanted to be a marshal artist with a gun.

Metallic silhouette both small bore and large bore, AAA RATING IN BOTH. Great sport by the way, especially if shot with a normal handgun, you learn what your pistol is capable of, and how to adjust your sights and read the wind. I did shoot a TC Contender with rifle scopes to achieve AAA status, but as time went on, I liked shooting revolvers and .22 autos with irons for fun.

NRA action shooting, ( Bianchi Cup stuff ) Master rating although I never went to the cup, 2nd in state ( Texas ) and I really like that match. Not tactical but teaches you what you can do perfectly in a certain amount of time.

Steel plate speed shooting, How much fun. Our local club did not shoot Steel Challenge stages, but 2 different brands, one that shot out to 35 yard and the other that is up close and speedy.

Tactical and Personal protection matches that our local club puts on, more like IPDA but done much earlier and with higher penalties for over exposure to danger and not using cover.

NRA US service rifle, you have to use a rifle used by the US military in externally equal dimensions to the original. The best game in may opinion for learning how to really shoot, read the wind and mirage, learn your sight adjustments, sling positions and shooting positions. You truly are shooting against yourself. I have 8 points toward becoming distinguished, need 30.

NRA Bullseye, I don't shoot it enough, but have an expert rating.

Air pistol, International style, one handed 60 shot matches, Hard Hard game, teaches you follow through to the inth degree.  rating sharpshooter, tough tough tough.

Bowling pin matches, only been to one, and got to shoot against Jerry Miculek, We were both very young, and he beat me.

Glock matches, been to at least 8, usually in the top 10, 1 year like 18th, my bad. Best 2nd with my model 21, my favorite.

Tactical shotgun, love it, just need a little time to go back and play.

3 gun, love it, just not enough time to play, and local stuff is 125 miles away.

Chevrolet team challenge, the most fun match I've ever been to, Did that for about 3 years in it's infancy, would like to do that again. When it's your turn, no time to BS, churn and burn.

USPSA, did it, I can't really talk about it, bad Mojo between me and my area directors as well as Sedro Wooley. If you like the game play it.

ICORE, revolvers are my favorite, shot it for about a year, and then my Mom got really sick, I did come in 3rd at the midwest regional shoot in Kansas, 1999. after that my Mom died and my work load became too much to play much. I am desperately trying to get back into it. I'm a much better person when I shoot.

Probably more, I'm a chief range officer certified by the national range officers institute. Have ro'd matches for over 25 years, I love shooting and all it has to offer. The one thing that I would like every one to know, is how many shooters prime out in their later years, 50+. I think it takes that long to overcome all the natural obstructions to shooting really well.

Now for the commercial.

If you want to be a really good shooter, practice and play in shooters games.

If you want to be a marshal artists, play the games your way, with the equipment, you want to be great with, and let the winning be secondary. A lot of my predecessors would come to plate matches and defense matches with their J frames and Sp101's or .380's just to shoot that pistol in competition with no hope of winning, but to get great practice.

I was a decalathon shooter for many years, I really did'nt care what I shot, as long as I shot. I helped me to become what I modestly call a good shooter. I've been out of the game for about 8 years, although I do compete occasionally.  Now that I'm 50, I hope to reach my peak.

[tombogan03884]

The range I belong to shoots IDPA on weds. nights  I work nights   

[hodman]

To m25operator

My hats off to you! I shot practical shooting in the 1980s with the likes of Bill Wilson Mike Plaxco and other pioneers.  I think in a box somewhere I still have a Chapman high-rise cross draw holster.  You make some great points but I think the most salient one you made is a great shooter can transfer his skills to his training but shooting is a perishable skill.  If you don't hone the blade the blade will become dull.

[hodman]

Okay this question has to some degree started to become competition, versus training.  I will agree that competition is not training IDPA included.  However, competition is the best form of practice.  To borrow another line from the famous movie Tombstone when the question comes “are you going to skin that smoke wagon” I think competition is the best way to get under stress repetitions that you need to answer that question successfully.  If we are going to carry the minor caliber pistols and rely on shot placement competition seems to be the litmus test for being able to produce an aimed cold shot under pressure on demand.  I fully intend once this thread has run its course to begin asking questions about training to that end, I have some questions that are not at all sarcastic, but are truly sincere.

Can someone name for me, a major technique that was not born in some competition.

Can someone name for me, a major gun innovation that was not born in some form of competition. Hell, I remember when a 1911 was a gun you bought and sent to the gunsmith, before competition forced the manufacture of ready to shoot guns out of the box.

I would submit to you that these so-called “gamers” are where the real innovation occurs.  And then it is filtered down to everyone else.  I would ask, what has been born in training.  That is then made its way to competition.

Again, these are not rhetorical questions.  These questions I've asked myself, and I genuinely am interested in answers to.

[Sponsor]

[Michael Bane]

m25...dude, I stand in awe!

I started shooting "combat" back in 1979 after several years of bullseye. And yes, I LOVED those matches, Cooper tunnels, swinging bridges, back-of-pickup truck, Rhodesian walls, weak-hand draws and all. That was the crucible that made us pretty good shooters. Have shot pretty much everything else — USPSA (Limited, Production, Single Stack); IDPA; cowboy; Western 3-Gun, which is sort of IPSC with cowboy guns; a little revolver which is Big Fun; various rifle stuff; some 3-gun, a few Glock-y matches; various .22 competitions and, as mentioned here, I am one of the 3 worst sporting clays shooters on earth.

The "false stress" of competition is stress nonetheless, and competition is an amazing teacher of gun-handling techniques. I can always spot a competition=trained shooter when it comes to clearing jams.

Competition is, as hodman has noted, the proving ground...the gamiest edge is where the innovations come from, which is a good thing whether you want to play there or not. The "super deluxe game gear" that I (and I suspect m25) hammered out in the early 1980s are now standard equipment (as a friend of mine who runs a major gun company once quipped to me, "We sell IPSC guns to people who can't spell IPSC!").

Michael B

[2HOW]

Good comments from all and I agree with most. I will say I think the person who shoots most , wether it be game shooting or defense training will have the edge when crunch time comes. There is alot to be said for trigger time, the more you handle a handgun the more proficient you will be. My thought in my first post was that just because you can run around and compete in a very choreographed atmosphere, you should not retain those movements and drills to the point that it effects your reaction when you need to react in a gun fight. I hope that makes sense.

[mtnscout]

I agree with the point m25 made about choosing to shoot matches to improve the skills you're interested in and don't worry about winning the trophies unless that's why you're there. I started shooting IPSC in the early 90's and the matches helped me even when I wasn't the match winner and I think that the more rounds you put downrange the more your skills and confidence in them improve. And I've met some really nice people at the range and made some long lasting friendships which has a value of it's own.

[Merv41]

Shoot SASS matches regularly, and am looking to try IDPA and 3 gun soon.

[Wheelgun Dunn]

m25,

Wow! Do you have a job?    Gracious sakes what an impressive array of competitive accolades!

I shoot Cowboy matches about twice a month or so.  Love it!

Wheelgun