do not buy one of THOSE guns

[Hazcat]

Tom, the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are readily available in AR-15s. You're probably wondering like I am why anyone would custom-chamber a M-14 in either of those when you can get them in AR-15s. And you hit the nail on the head on your previous post about assault rifles and changing tactics. The M14 was a MBR invented in a time AFTER assault rifles were already becoming common. Right weaoon, wrong time. Also when you carry an M16 with 240 rounds it still weighs less than an M14 with 100 rounds IIRC.

There are those of us that would argue that you can do more with 100 rounds of 7.62 than 240 of .223.

Why do you think they added the 3 round select?

[tombogan03884]

There are those of us that would argue that you can do more with 100 rounds of 7.62 than 240 of .223.

Why do you think they added the 3 round select?

Trying to control an uncontrollable platform, why do you think the BAR weighed about 20 pounds compared to the Garand at around 10. Same reason the Belt fed version of the HK 91 was a flop (HK 33 ?) . Full auto weapons need more weight than semi's to help keep you somewhere near the target. Any .308 that is heavy enough to be an effective full auto is to heavy to serve as an infantry rifle, any .308 light enough to serve as an infantry rifle is to light for effective full auto, it's part of the reason the .223 AR design was adopted instead of the AR 10 in .308. In fact that makes the best illustration possible of my point, same design .223 is usable in full auto . 308 isn't.

[Hazcat]

SO, what you are saying is that YOU can't control a 308 or pull off a three round burst on one.  Gee, the Thompson .45 is uncomtrolable too!

[tombogan03884]

SO, what you are saying is that YOU can't control a 308 or pull off a three round burst on one.  Gee, the Thompson .45 is uncomtrolable too!

No it's not, but it also weighs 10 pounds compared to 42 oz's for a 1911. And No I'm not saying I can't control .308 in full auto , I'm saying that was the decision of the Army Ordnance board, based on feed back from troops in Vn.

[Hazcat]

Give me the 'heavy' .308, thank you very much or if it is all 'close', I'll take the M1A2 carbine.  (been there, done that)

[Sponsor]

[Big Frank]

The M-1 carbine was so weak the it was replaced by the more powerful M16. Thinking the M16 is too weak but the weaker carbine is okay...    I don't get it.

[tombogan03884]

Give me the 'heavy' .308, thank you very much or if it is all 'close', I'll take the M1A2 carbine.  (been there, done that)

I agree with Frank, M1 carbine is a sweet little plinker but based on personal experience with steel and aluminum plates I'd rather trust my life to a Marlin camp 9.
You are being purposely dense to twist my tail. First, I LIKE the .308,in semi auto rifles it's a great round, in machine guns it's a great round, in a select fire hybrid of the 2 it's either an uncontrollable POS or else the weapon is to heavy to serve the purpose it was designed for. Thats why Saiga markets a .308 SEMI  auto AK but never developed the full auto version that would be the logical next step if the idea hadn't already been proven to be unworkable, even with the AR's buffer system. Second, you won't be firing full auto out of your Ishy so your comments are  irrelevant in the context of what you will practically be doing with it.

[Hazcat]

I carried the M14 and the M1A2 AND the POS M16.  I speak from actual experience. 

[tombogan03884]

Was the M 14 SELECT FIRE ?
This thread is getting WAY off track, Many of the things you say about the M 14/ M1a are perfectly true in a CIVILIAN application, but not in the context of the original thread, which was about MILITARY weapons, in that context the M 14 was a foot note in history that was by passed by changes in tactics, doctrine, and ordanance buying logistics before it ever hit the drawing board, it was at best an interim stop gap until something could be developed that filled the bill for changing requirements.

[sanjuancb]

Yes and is still used by:

    *  Argentina: Used by Argentine soldiers of C Company, Regimento (Especial) de Infanteria 25 in the Falklands War at the Battle of Goose Green and San Carlos.[5]
    *  Australia: Used by Australian SAS troops during the Vietnam War.
    *  China: Created by Norinco and Poly Technologies for export,[3][4] the rifle being made by the former as the M14S[6]. A semi-auto version is said to be made as the M305[7].
    *  Colombia
    *  Costa Rica
    *  Dominican Republic
    *  Ecuador
    *  El Salvador
    *  Estonia: Used by Estonian troops with a modified version called the Täpsuspüss M14-TP (Precision Rifle M14-PR), with changes to the stock with a thumbhole and its wooden body with a plastic green one.[8]
    *  Ethiopia
    *  Greece
    *  Haiti: Used by Haiti security forces and rebels in the 2004 Haitian rebellion.[5]
    *  Honduras: Seen in rebel hands in 2003.[5]
    *  Iceland
    *  Israel: Used as sniper rifle with eventual conversion and production as M89SR.[5][9]
    *  Latvia
    *  Lebanon: Armed Christian militiamen during the Lebanese Civil War.[5]
    *  Lithuania: Modified locally by Koncernas Pergale as the M14L1 with changes to body, stock with large thumbhole and scope mount including exposed gas piston and rod.[10]
    *  Malaysia: Minor used by Royal Malaysian Navy PASKAL only as well as RMN vessel crews for rope launching.
    *  Niger
    *  Philippines: Used by the Armed Forces of the Philippines and primarily by the New People's Army.[5]
    *  Poland: Used by FORMOZA
    *  South Korea: Limited use, seen in honor guard duties.[11]
    *  South Vietnam
    *  Republic of China: (Taiwan) Made under license as the Type 57.[5]
    *  Turkey
    *  Venezuela
    *  United States: Uses the M14SE, manufactured by Smith Enterprise, in SDM roles.[12] Also uses M14s custom built or modified in military armories, such as the M14 DMR.