Consider this #9: less-lethal defensive options

[Robin]

TBD #2 mentioned OC for defensive use in a home. OC has mixed results--it works against most people but not all. Point of fact, most police academies subject recruits to a good blast and then make them fight off an opponent for several minutes. If you do choose OC for home defense consider the different delivery mechanisms (stream, fog and foam), capacity and effectiveness.

Stream and foam may be best overall. Especially indoors a fog/mist delivery could result in the defender getting exposed to OC. Regarding capacity, some states limit the size cannister civilians can own/carry. Effectiveness varies as well. Effectiveness is a combination of potency measured in scoville units and what percent of the liquid in the can is actually OC.

Other points to consider include staying away from alchohol-based solutions (people have caught on fire after getting sprayed) and if storing in a car making sure the container is rated safe for high temps. You don't want a can exploding inside your car while driving. Be sure to throughly shake the can once a month to prevent the OC from settling out. Test and possibly replace the can once a year to make sure it still has enough propellent.

Tasers may be another option to consider but they have drawbacks as well. They're certianly more expensive than OC, are basically one shot devices and require both prongs hit the target. They might be a viable choice for someone who is morally opposed to taking another person's life but one shot means if you miss, it's over. If there's more than one opponent, it's over. Personally I don't like those odds.

Something else to consider are the legal ramifications of having both less-lethal and lethal defensive options. It's bad enough when prosecutors ask why you couldn't "shoot to wound". Imagine the field day they can have saying you went for your gun instead of OC, which proves you wanted to kill the poor misunderstood home invader. Sad but true.

[Texas_Bryan]

The problem with OC, like you mentioned, is it effects many people differently and even if it does have the desired results, it often takes ten to fifteen seconds to fully work.  Which is a huge amount of time to retaliate with a firearm, if a criminal does have one.  Its even plenty of time for an attacker to close the gap between your family and you to do injury with an edged weapon or any object.

OC is a good tool to subdue an aggressive person, but not to protect your life or your family's.  And a taser is just suicidal, one shot and that's it.  After the prongs have been removed the person is back in action, there is no short term incapacitation.  Heavy close can stop it, if a person falls to the ground and rolls the prongs can become dislodged, or if a person has help they could remove the prongs.

While these less than lethal options may have their merits, they're a poor substitute for a gun and your ability to use it effectively.

[Rob Pincus]

Here're my thoughts:

OC:  I hate it in Law Enforcement and think it is an antiquated tool that should go the way of the sap (on second thought, bring the sap back and get rid of OC....). The problem in LE is that you MUST get control of the subject and in the process everyone tends to get contaminated.  In civilian self defense, you don't have that problem. you can spray and run while the person who was attacking you deals with the effects. Perfect? No... but it is an option. The various delivery methods have their place, but Stream or Foam is probably the best option for self defense.

Taser:  The best tool to be introduced to LE in the last 20 years. The mistake in the above posts is the idea that it is one time use or that the probes must hit. It is true that the Taser is designed to be used by shooting two probes into an attacker at a distance, but it can be used as a touch-stun device (called a "drive stun" in Taser parlance) even AFTER it has been fired, regardless of whether the original shot hit or missed the target. In this way, it can also be used against multiple targets... if a second threat approaches you after yo've hit the first, the first guy gets to go along for the extra ride as well.
The very nice thing about the C2 civilian Taser (which I just got shot with for the first time as part of a training DVD a couple of months ago) is that it has  a 30 second cycle. It is designed to be fired and left on the ground after the threat is hit, giving the user time to get away. Taser then replaces the device after getting a copy of the police report. The other/older Tasers are not primarily designed for self defense, so I won't go into them here.




Not everyone has the option to carry a firearm or wants to take that option. Both the Taser and OC (the latter to a much lesser extent) are viable self defense tools that should not be dismissed.
Lastly, just like the LEO who has the option to use lesser force when the gun is not necessary, some people may choose to take that route when possible to save themselves from the level of aftermath that comes with the use of lethal force.

-RJP

[Texas_Bryan]

I did not know about the new features on taser thanks for the correction/information.  I guess if you confident enough to get physical with an attacker than its an option.  Either way OC or the taser is much better than nothing if your denied the right to carry a firearm.

[Robin]

Taser is a trademark that refers to a specific type of Electronic Control Device (ECD). There are other manufacturers but I only have experience with Tasers so take this for what you will.

The probes are effective through up to 1" of clothing so as long as both barbs stick that shouldn't be a concern even against a leather jacket. If one barb misses you can drive stun them as Rob mentioned, but that has its drawbacks. When you use probes the shock is designed to incapacitate muscles. In other words, even if you wanted to move you can't. In drive stun mode it works through pain compliance which isn't as effective--a few people can fight through it. The C2 is interesting since it has a 30-second mode. Taking a five second ride with the X26 is bad enough.

[Sponsor]

[Rob Pincus]

The "Shock" that Robin is referring to is the same whether it is between the probes or from the device. Taser original called their effect "Electro-Muscular Disruption" (not sure if they still do, I took my last full instructor course quite a while back....) is an effect generated by wattage of the electricity which overrides the signals from the brain to the effected muscles (which are at a lower wattage). The problem that he is alluding to is that when the two points of contact are very close (probes, or the contacts at the front of the device) then the amount of muscle effected is obviously small. You can use  muscles in other parts of the body just fine, if you can overcome the psychological and pain effects of the device. While this is becoming more and more of a factor for Law Enforcement (dealing with repeat offenders, criminals realizing it isn't a wonder-tool, criminals expecting the Taser beforehand, etc) it should be less likely for a supposedly unarmed person who draws and fires on a threat who did not 100% know ahead of time that they were about to be "tased". So, if you have the probes spread out along most of your back, it dramatically affects what you can do. If the probes at 4 inches apart after a close shot (the lower probe shoots our at a slight downward angle, so spread increases with distances from the device) you still would not get much "EMD".
 When I was shot in the chest, about 1/5th of a second before the picture was taken in the above post, my torso caved and I fell, but I broke my fall with one of my hands/arms (which you can see on the other stills and the video). After about 4-5 seconds I also look up over my shoulder for the clown who was supposed to shut the C2 off after 5 seconds to make sure that he was on the ball.... it felt like at least 10.... that was the first time I was shot in the chest and the first time with the new XP Probes, which are supposed to up the perceived force.

The various models (there have been at least 4 significantly different models of modern Tasers, plus the variations of color, cameras, lasers, etc) have different stats and some of what Taser has put out in the instructor courses has changed over the years, so be sure to watch the training DVD that Taser puts out with any of the models or seek qualified training (note that Taser does not have ANY official training program in place for civilian customers, except the print & DVD materials that accompany the devices) before trusting the numbers you see on the net.

-RJP

[tombogan03884]

Do I under stand correctly that if you shoot attacker one with the Taser barbs, then "Drive stun" attacker two, attacker one gets another dose ?
The Bible says "The way of the transgressor is hard" 
PS Recently an area PD (think it was Belmont NH) certified several of their officers to carry Tasers, Part of the certification process required them to have it used on THEM.

[Rob Pincus]

Yes, Tom, that is correct... choose your friends wisely.

When I first went through the Instructor Course, I was the only one in the group of 20 or so that got shot, it was voluntary. (video here, lots of bad language:  http://swatmag.com/misc/mov/Taser.MPG )

Again, Taser policy is unclear, but I know most instructors require anyone carrying the device to "feel" the effects. This usually means 1-2 seconds with the probes taped to the person (or multiple people holding hands  ) or in a pocket and a sock.
Very few instructors actually shoot students with the probes. Even at the instructor level.

Personally, I think anyone who carries it should be shot with it. OR, at least get a full 5 seconds with the probes appropriately attached. Two reasons:

1. I think it takes a few seconds to recover from the psychological effects and actually start processing the feeling and physiological effects. During this time, the perception of what it is going on is distorted (think of grabbing something that is very cold and thinking it was very hot at first...).
2. The fast recovery time (almost instant) needs to be understood, especially with the 5 second Tasers. The only thing you have after 5 seconds is the possibility that they are afraid of it happening again IF they realize it can happen again. It reinforces the proper training for verbalization and follow-up action to experience this.

-RJP

[ericire12]

What do you think about Kimber Life Act?

[Rob Pincus]

Marketing Gimmick?

It is pepper spray and I don't know anything about the source for the OC itself... I doubt Kimber went into the OC business from scratch (ie- importing pepper oil). The range issues are going to be largely effected by setting and wind. Some people may find that shape delivery system more convenient, which is probably the most unique aspect of that device.

Sprays vary widely. I recommend Saber Defence products to those who want OC spray because I know the quality controls in place by the company, trust the company and have felt and witnessed the effects. I have also used many of their delivery systems in training and never seen one fail.

-RJP