Episode 10: Safe In The Backcountry

[metamurph]

so another slight twist on the backwoods discussion when it comes to four legged predators is are there liability or other legal considerations.  IE I shot an animal I don't have a license, proper tag, or it is out of season.  I think of this especially in your long-range shot, at that distance did you really "retreat" if it was a two legged predator and you cocked the revolver like you did because you needed a precise shot, you just (according to recent pro arms podcast) greatly increased your exposure to a liability lawsuit.  Now a mountain lion doesn't have a family to come after you but you could have a state or an environmentalist group come after you.  I mean this is a far fetched scenario but do you know if there has ever been a negative ramification when someone took action to protect themselves?

[tombogan03884]

Actually Meta it's a darn good question. We all know, (or should) that if you just dropped some lowlife robber, rapist etc. you SHOULD let the Cops know about it and get a lawyer,(it's RUDE to leave bodies laying around with out explanation). But lets say you were just attacked by a Mt. lion, like the hikers and bicyclists in Ca. but YOU kill IT, no hunting license because you are a hiker, not a hunter, animal may be "protected" in that particular area.What actions SHOULD you take in the aftermath of a lethal force encounter with a 4 legged predator ?

[Rob Pincus]

so another slight twist on the backwoods discussion when it comes to four legged predators is are there liability or other legal considerations.  IE I shot an animal I don't have a license, proper tag, or it is out of season.  I think of this especially in your long-range shot, at that distance did you really "retreat" if it was a two legged predator and you cocked the revolver like you did because you needed a precise shot, you just (according to recent pro arms podcast) greatly increased your exposure to a liability lawsuit.  Now a mountain lion doesn't have a family to come after you but you could have a state or an environmentalist group come after you.  I mean this is a far fetched scenario but do you know if there has ever been a negative ramification when someone took action to protect themselves?

Actually Meta it's a darn good question.

I don't think so, because I  don't think it really matters in the context of the choice to act.  Self defense comes down to perception of need. Any responsible discussion should keep that in the forefront. Legal considerations are an issue, but they should never be a significant factor in the moment that you PERCEIVE A NEED to defend yourself.

I can't outrun a mountain lion. There is "retreat" if I'm not a LOT closer to a car/building than the cat is to me.

Cocking the revolver was about the need for precision not premeditated action. Realistic training reveals when you need or don't need to cock any handgun (if it is an option). In most self-defense situations it isn't a factor and isn't recommended... the situation shown was an exception.

Now, when these issues might matter is in the aftermath of the shooting. Deciding what to do afterwards is going to be a factor of personal judgement and local regulations.... which, if you are carrying a firearm in the backcountry, you should be aware of.

If anyone has factual information in regard to these types of incidents, please post...

-RJP

[tombogan03884]

I don't think so, because I  don't think it really matters in the context of the choice to act.  Self defense comes down to perception of need. Any responsible discussion should keep that in the forefront. Legal considerations are an issue, but they should never be a significant factor in the moment that you PERCEIVE A NEED to defend yourself.

I can't outrun a mountain lion. There is "retreat" if I'm not a LOT closer to a car/building than the cat is to me.

Cocking the revolver was about the need for precision not premeditated action. Realistic training reveals when you need or don't need to cock any handgun (if it is an option). In most self-defense situations it isn't a factor and isn't recommended... the situation shown was an exception.

Now, when these issues might matter is in the aftermath of the shooting. Deciding what to do afterwards is going to be a factor of personal judgement and local regulations.... which, if you are carrying a firearm in the backcountry, you should be aware of.

If anyone has factual information in regard to these types of incidents, please post...

-RJP

That was what I wanted to get to. While specifics will vary by location and situation, are there any "rules of thumb" that would apply that you would like to get out for discussion or general information ?

[Rob Pincus]

Thanks, Tom... Just wanted to make sure we were focused on those questions from the right perspective... for me, it is a matter of responsibility to know ahead of time what the laws and regulations are and to plan on abiding by them whenever possible. That goes for just about everything, use of force against an animal included.  That's all I've got. Like I said, I think the best thing to help us all prepare would be for first hand facts to be added to the thread.

-RJP

[Sponsor]

[Michael Bane]

Rules of thumb are tough, but let me give you mine:

• If I have fired a gun or a gun has been fired in an altercation, I will notify the authorities as quickly as possible.

• If I have to shoot an animal "close-in," that is on Front Range trails, I will immediately notify Fish & Game/Sheriff's Department.

• If I'm way out in the outback and I have to kill an animal, I will notify Fish & Game when I get out of the woods.

mb

[Matthew Carberry]

Took this long to get Trailsafe out again? 

You probably don't remember Mike, but I asked about it a few years back as I was recommending it to my female outdoorsy-type friends (who appreciated it) and was finding it hard to get used copies.  Now I can restock.  Thanks so much for putting in the time, the DVD sounds great too.

As for defense against animals, up here in AK that kind of shoot is called "defense of life or property" and you must immediately (well, as soon as practical) notify Fish and Game.  There's even a form, yea paperwork.  You also have to recover the hide or meat (depending on the species) and surrender it to the State.  The meat goes to charity if usable.  If you are unable to do the dressing out, you are allowed to get assistance.

If you happen to need to drop a bear, you can at least go bid on the hide later at the annual Rondy Fur Auction.

[From the Mailbox]

Date: 3/12/2009 7:38:25 AM
Subject: holster
     
On the episode concerning wilderness defense a hard chest holster was shown holding a small revolver. Who made the holster and what model? As I am rather large and usually wear bibs instead of pants / no belt, holsters like what I viewed could be very handy, especially in the wild as was shown.

 THE BEST DEFENSE is a good show exposing potential problems that could be seen by anyone anytime, and most people haven’t thought about how to deal with the situations. Many gun owners probably have thought about the ‘what ifs’ of home intrusion but not considered the post shooting dilemma. We live in a world where bad things happen anywhere and I think you do a good job of exposing this and cause people to think about what to do IF. As you point out, good training and practice is the best not all of us has access to the training but your show reveals weakness in our personal environment. I think you do a good job of going over the different guns used and the good and bad points of each and it is easy to see there is no Best GUN for all situations except for the one you may have at hand when you need it.

Kregg G