Tactical Knives

[joelhorton]

I have been looking for a good tactical knife since I watched your episode "Alone in the Dark"a few weeks ago.  The one you showed also had a training version which I have not come across.  Can you share that brand or other brands that have a good knife and a training version.  I am new to self defense and have no preconceived preferences so if you recommend it I will probably be very happy with it.

Joel

I have a lot of input on this topic, which is why I wrote an entire book on it: Street Steel. I'm not trying to hype the book; just explaining that the topic can get very deep very quickly.

To try to provide some useful input, here are some quick thoughts:

"Tactical" is a pretty meaningless term. Usually it means painting something black and doubling the price.
The basic requirements I consider important include:

• Legal to carry in the jurisdictions where you travel
  Strong, quality construction
  Capable of cutting and puncturing
  Easily and conveniently carried
  Easily and quickly deployed
  Ideally, a design that has a dedicated matching training knife available

Since I travel a lot, I lean toward short (3-3.5-inch blade) folders with plain edges. If I have a design I really like and the blade is too long to be legal, I grind the blade down to a legal length and keep the longer handle.

This is a big topic. I'm happy to discuss specifics, but I really feel that there are so many variables, there is no definitive "best."

Stay safe,

Mike

[tfr270]

I believe that was a Spyderco Delica.

I just bought two knives. One is a Cold Steel Mini Lawman and the other is a Spyderco Delica 4 with the plain edge. I wanted to see the difference between two different, highly rated, knives. Both knives have good and less good points...I didn't think either has a "bad" point...I liked the locking mechanism of the Cold Steel better than the Spyderco, but the Spyderco's locking mechanism was still strong. The Mini Lawman was definitely "mini". As in too small for my hand. All in all, the Spyderco is what is in my pocket...it opens faster, feels better in my hand, clip is easier, not too tight, not too loose. And the blade, imho, is better. The Cold Steel knife will be a back up for now until I buy a second Delica. BTW, I bought the Spyderco on EBay from Spydieguys.

Still, one of my very favorite carry knives is the Hideaway Knife (google it for the website). Unfortunately, TAB, a fellow Kalifornian, pointed out it is possilbly illegal in our "state".

[JdePietro]

I have one last question. Karambit, joke or deadly serious?

I grapple with this because it seams to use some good mechanical advantages, but I don't know if I dig having something looped around my finger. 

[Michael Janich]

I think the more important questions which needs an expert's advice for are:

-What does the expert carry and why?
-Where does he carry/place on body and why?
-Why does he choose the brand of knives? Really.
-Why choose plain or serrated for Personal Defense?
-Why choose a lock back, liner or (my favorite) axis lock system?
-Why should I have a lanyard for a pocket clip knife?
-What profile should I choose for defensive usage?
-Should I choose a full grind or saber, and why?
-Should it be hollow ground and the benefits or negatives of this?
-Should there be multiple folders or mixture of folder and fixed on person?
-Should there be tip up or down for defensive usage? (I have always preferred up)
-Should we choose tactical or go under the radar?
-Should your hard-use knife be a utility razor?
-When does a neck knife have a place?
-What is the minimum and maximum blade length recommended for EDC of PD?
-What is opinion of assisted openers?
-What is opinion of factory vs. custom for EDC?
-What is opinion of DVD vs. Dojo training?
-What is opinion of edge vs. gun for ambush defense while a foot?
-What is the proper carry for deployment of you EDC blade when carrying a gun strong side?
-Why do we not train deployment of closed knife during verbal deescalation drills?
-Why are reinforced strikes with the closed knife in hand not taught more in training?
-How important is it to have metal liners for stabbing rigidity though clothing and bone strikes?


Now I know some of these questions have been answered to a degree at other posts but if anyone can think of a point of questioning I am overlooking I would appreciate the heads up.

Thank you,
tex

Wow. OK, I’ve got a big cup of coffee and will do my best to address all these with at least some brief answers:

-What does the expert carry and why? I hate the term expert, but if you’re asking me, I carry a Spyderco Endura (ground down to 3.5 inches to make it legal in Colorado) and two Delicas. One of the Delicas has a 50/50 edge; the others are plain. Why? Because these knives have matching trainers, they are affordable and durable, and they are also ubiquitous enough that they do not draw undue attention. They are also completely ambidextrous.

-Where does he carry/place on body and why? Endura strong side pocket, all the way to the back of the pocket. It does not get used for utility purposes. Plain-edge Delica, left-side pocket, mirror image to the Endura. 50/50 Delica, right rear pocket inside the pocket where a right-hander’s wallet normally sits.

-Why does he choose the brand of knives? Really. Performance, reliability, customer service, and ethics. I’ve got somewhere over 200 knives in my collection and have dealt with and written about many different companies. Some knives look cool and don’t work very well. When they don’t work well and you address it with the company, you often get vapid, mouth-breather responses that let you know the company’s people don’t know their products. Other times you get excuses and used-car-dealer dances. Companies that stand up and back their products also tend to be the most ethical. I’ve been screwed by and have had good, talented friends screwed by some big-name companies. I now do not trust those companies as far as I could spit a rat.

-Why choose plain or serrated for Personal Defense? Plain edges with proper edge geometry and a well sharpened edge cut cleaner through clothing without snagging and dissipating the force of the cut. Also, all serrations are not created equal, so it’s not possible to generalize too much about them.

-Why choose a lock back, liner or (my favorite) axis lock system? Quality of execution is more important than lock design. As we say in MBC, “If someone tries hard enough, they can f___ up anything.” By design, back locks, the Axis Lock, the Ball-Bearing Lock, and the Arc-Lock are all ambidextrous. If you carry weak side or both sides, that’s an important consideration. This is a deep subject, but in general, you need to look at design, engineering, and manufacturing execution.

-Why should I have a lanyard for a pocket clip knife? I personally hate lanyards. If it works for you and makes your draw more positive, go for it. I’ve tried them and found they encourage me to grip too far back on the handle, forcing a grip change before I can deploy the blade.

-What profile should I choose for defensive usage? My personal preference is a wharncliffe or a clip-point with a relatively straight cutting edge. They cut with power all the way to the tip, which is important to maximize the function of a short blade.

-Should I choose a full grind or saber, and why? Balancing edge geometry and strength is the real goal. A lot depends on the thickness of the blade material to start with and the width of the blade. The height of the saber grind and, very importantly, the thickness of the edge before sharpening, also play heavily. In general terms, flat grinds tend to cut with less drag and saber grinds tend to be a little stronger, but that’s assuming the company is doing both well. Some companies don’t understand edge geometry at all. Again, if someone tries hard enough…

-Should it be hollow ground and the benefits or negatives of this? Again, it’s tough to generalize too much on this. Hollow grinds typically have a longer life if they are used hard and sharpened often. The reason is that the blade remains thinner behind the edge, so as you sharpen and move the edge “up,” it still works. Flat grinds get thicker as you move the edge up, changing the edge geometry and requiring a wider terminal edge bevel as time goes on.

-Should there be multiple folders or mixture of folder and fixed on person? That depends on your local laws, your style of dress, and your personal preferences.

-Should there be tip up or down for defensive usage? (I have always preferred up) I’m a big tip-up fan. With a proper clip height that allows you a good, deep grip on your knife in the pocket, you can draw and open without having to reposition your knife before deploying the blade. My friend Kelly McCann is a big tip-down fan, but he’s invested the time and training to perfect his deployment. As long as what you do works for you and you can do it reliably and consistently under stress, it works. (Hint: All knives are hard to deploy if you never get off the couch.)

-Should we choose tactical or go under the radar? In my opinion, the real meaning of “tactical” is something that is appropriate to the dynamics of your immediate environment (as opposed to “strategic”). I personally feel that a high-quality knife that offers a good combination of strength, cutting and puncturing performance, and ease of carry and deployment works best—particularly if the people you come in contact on a daily basis don’t give it a second thought. I refuse to cater to sheeple, but at the same time, I’m not out to intimidate anyone.
I also know that the theoretical “jury of my peers” will not be a true jury of my peers, otherwise they’d all show up wearing NRA hats and reading SWAT magazine. Instead, I’ll have some granola-head asking why I didn’t use my “chi” or do a wristlock on the guy trying to bury the tire iron in my head. “I was in fear for my life and was forced to use my pocketknife to disable the attacker so I could escape safely” works better for me than “I pulled out my Combat Karambit and eviscerated the dirtbag.”

-Should your hard-use knife be a utility razor? Only you can define “hard use.” Some people have trouble telling the difference between knives and screwdrivers…

-When does a neck knife have a place? When it’s legal to carry in your area, it’s consistent with your style of dress, and you’ve trained to deploy it and use it when you need it. You also need to realize that many neck knives are incapable of disabling an attacker and must back them up with other skills. Read here for more:

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-knives/concealed-micro-muscle/

-What is the minimum and maximum blade length recommended for EDC of PD? That depends upon local laws. If you can manage it, at least 3 inches. If you live in Chicago or Boston, settle for the legal 2.5 or move.

-What is opinion of assisted openers? They’re fun, but overrated for defensive use.

-What is opinion of factory vs. custom for EDC? Consider knives like guns, with the same challenges of explaining to a jury what you were carrying. I carry a stock Glock because it’s reliable and it’s exactly what thousands of cops carry. The more “tactical” it seems, the more the idiots will want to assume that you were looking for an excuse to use it. Also, I’ve had to go into non-permissive environments (including a lot of museums and parks) and had to remove my knives to get in. Of course, these places do not offer the courtesy of keeping them for you or even renting a locker because in their perfect non-permissive world you shouldn’t be carrying them. My solution is to carry a sandwich-sized zip-lock bag with me. If I need to ditch my knives, they go in the bag and the bag goes into a planter or under a bush outside. I’m discreet and haven’t lost any knives yet, but I’d rather lose a $100 production knife than a $400 custom.

-What is opinion of DVD vs. Dojo training? Learning takes a motivated student and a decent basis of information. The better the teacher, the greater potential there is to learn, whether it’s firsthand or via video. Well-produced videos also offer camera angles that allow your brain to easily understand and replicate movement. That’s why most of the videos I produced when I ran Paladin Press’ video production featured overhead camera angles.
While there is no substitute for hands-on training with a good instructor, if someone tries hard enough… you know the rest. Some of the best stuff I know I learned by watching videos of some very talented martial artists with the sound turned off. Once I realized they couldn’t articulate what they were doing, it was just a distraction.

-What is opinion of edge vs. gun for ambush defense while a foot? Have both and complement them with solid empty-hand skills. If you are ambushed with a contact-distance weapon, the attacker will play on his terms, i.e. a “knifer” will get close and then move. He will not announce his intentions from 21 feet away to allow you to shoot him. As such, you must use your hands to stay alive long enough to draw and use a weapon.

-What is the proper carry for deployment of you EDC blade when carrying a gun strong side? Strong side as well. That way your initial empty-hand threat-management skills feed the draw for both weapons.

-Why do we not train deployment of closed knife during verbal deescalation drills? Who says I don’t? We do lots of “sneaky” draws and carries, but we address those in seminars. Why tip our hand?

-Why are reinforced strikes with the closed knife in hand not taught more in training? We strike with the closed knife when we are justified in drawing the knife in the first place, but things have happened to quickly for us to open it. All of our improvised weapons skills work exceedingly well with a closed knife. We just don’t focus so heavily on the “closed-knife-impact-tool” thing that it has to be a separate skill set.

-How important is it to have metal liners for stabbing rigidity though clothing and bone strikes? Not very. Fiberglass-reinforced nylon is extremely strong. Liners hold pocket clips on better since they can be threaded.

I hope this helps. Now I need more coffee…

Stay safe,

Mike

[JdePietro]

Mike you are the man! I stand in a daily amazment and how much time and effort you put into your product. This isn't some silly board for us to gather after an episode and just chat, you guys back up the software with real tech support.
Bravo, and Thank you. 

[Sponsor]

[Michael Janich]

I have one last question. Karambit, joke or deadly serious?

I grapple with this because it seams to use some good mechanical advantages, but I don't know if I dig having something looped around my finger. 

Thanks for the kind words in your latest post. To "finish the job," here's an answer to your question.

The original premise of the karambit was as a utility tool, mostly for agrarian use. The ring allowed the use to hook a finger (usually a pinky) in it so he could let it dangle and have the utility of both hands without having to sheath the knife every time (much like some guys do with O rings and flashlights, only a few centuries ago). When you needed the blade again, you swung it up into your palm and went back to cutting.

Since the cutlures that developed this design (Indonesia and the Philippines) were poor, the knives folks used for work typically were the same ones that they used for personal defense. As such, tactics were developed around the karambit design.

The common “claim” with the karambit is that it offers three cuts per movement: One with the outward flip of the blade, one with the inward flip, and a third as the knife settles back into reverse grip in your hand. In theory, that sounds great—until you actually make contact with something. Then it’s like nunchaku, which are fun to twirl—until you hit something.

Many modern karambits have terrible designs that look very dramatic, but don’t function well and can easily produce broken fingers if they were ever used full force. The concept of a folding karambit—more specifically a folding knife that you intentionally swing into targets, hitting with the unsharpened back of the blade, while stressing the lock and tempting the blade to close—doesn’t do much for me. If I want a folding knife that cust with power, I’ll opt for a good hawkbill or wharncliffe.

Are karambits fun? Sure. When properly designed and executed, can they be effective? Yes, if they’re double-edged fixed blades. Are they worth the effort? Not to me.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

[JdePietro]

Thank you very much for your answer.

The twirling and mock butterfly movements may serve for intimidation, but I agree that even in theory it seems like at the very least its risky and portrays poor control when used in actual defensive. I cringe when I see people place the loop around their pinky, that just seems like you are asking for a tear.

Now on the other hand I do see some benefits. When the loop is placed around the pointer finger it becomes a force multiplier, I have seen it used in pain persuasion, and sorta like a brass knuckle. Also while in this position it makes it hard to see the blade which may or may not be a benefit.

Perhaps its use limits its ability, I guess I still stand on the fence. For a purpose built fighting knife it does provide some decent mechanical advantages.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply.   

[seeker_two]

Wow. OK, I’ve got a big cup of coffee and will do my best to address all these with at least some brief answers:

-What does the expert carry and why? I hate the term expert, but if you’re asking me, I carry a Spyderco Endura (ground down to 3.5 inches to make it legal in Colorado) and two Delicas. One of the Delicas has a 50/50 edge; the others are plain. Why? Because these knives have matching trainers, they are affordable and durable, and they are also ubiquitous enough that they do not draw undue attention. They are also completely ambidextrous.

-Where does he carry/place on body and why? Endura strong side pocket, all the way to the back of the pocket. It does not get used for utility purposes. Plain-edge Delica, left-side pocket, mirror image to the Endura. 50/50 Delica, right rear pocket inside the pocket where a right-hander’s wallet normally sits.

-Why does he choose the brand of knives? Really. Performance, reliability, customer service, and ethics. I’ve got somewhere over 200 knives in my collection and have dealt with and written about many different companies. Some knives look cool and don’t work very well. When they don’t work well and you address it with the company, you often get vapid, mouth-breather responses that let you know the company’s people don’t know their products. Other times you get excuses and used-car-dealer dances. Companies that stand up and back their products also tend to be the most ethical. I’ve been screwed by and have had good, talented friends screwed by some big-name companies. I now do not trust those companies as far as I could spit a rat.

-Why choose plain or serrated for Personal Defense? Plain edges with proper edge geometry and a well sharpened edge cut cleaner through clothing without snagging and dissipating the force of the cut. Also, all serrations are not created equal, so it’s not possible to generalize too much about them.

-Why choose a lock back, liner or (my favorite) axis lock system? Quality of execution is more important than lock design. As we say in MBC, “If someone tries hard enough, they can f___ up anything.” By design, back locks, the Axis Lock, the Ball-Bearing Lock, and the Arc-Lock are all ambidextrous. If you carry weak side or both sides, that’s an important consideration. This is a deep subject, but in general, you need to look at design, engineering, and manufacturing execution.

-Why should I have a lanyard for a pocket clip knife? I personally hate lanyards. If it works for you and makes your draw more positive, go for it. I’ve tried them and found they encourage me to grip too far back on the handle, forcing a grip change before I can deploy the blade.

-What profile should I choose for defensive usage? My personal preference is a wharncliffe or a clip-point with a relatively straight cutting edge. They cut with power all the way to the tip, which is important to maximize the function of a short blade.

-Should I choose a full grind or saber, and why? Balancing edge geometry and strength is the real goal. A lot depends on the thickness of the blade material to start with and the width of the blade. The height of the saber grind and, very importantly, the thickness of the edge before sharpening, also play heavily. In general terms, flat grinds tend to cut with less drag and saber grinds tend to be a little stronger, but that’s assuming the company is doing both well. Some companies don’t understand edge geometry at all. Again, if someone tries hard enough…

-Should it be hollow ground and the benefits or negatives of this? Again, it’s tough to generalize too much on this. Hollow grinds typically have a longer life if they are used hard and sharpened often. The reason is that the blade remains thinner behind the edge, so as you sharpen and move the edge “up,” it still works. Flat grinds get thicker as you move the edge up, changing the edge geometry and requiring a wider terminal edge bevel as time goes on.

-Should there be multiple folders or mixture of folder and fixed on person? That depends on your local laws, your style of dress, and your personal preferences.

-Should there be tip up or down for defensive usage? (I have always preferred up) I’m a big tip-up fan. With a proper clip height that allows you a good, deep grip on your knife in the pocket, you can draw and open without having to reposition your knife before deploying the blade. My friend Kelly McCann is a big tip-down fan, but he’s invested the time and training to perfect his deployment. As long as what you do works for you and you can do it reliably and consistently under stress, it works. (Hint: All knives are hard to deploy if you never get off the couch.)

-Should we choose tactical or go under the radar? In my opinion, the real meaning of “tactical” is something that is appropriate to the dynamics of your immediate environment (as opposed to “strategic”). I personally feel that a high-quality knife that offers a good combination of strength, cutting and puncturing performance, and ease of carry and deployment works best—particularly if the people you come in contact on a daily basis don’t give it a second thought. I refuse to cater to sheeple, but at the same time, I’m not out to intimidate anyone.
I also know that the theoretical “jury of my peers” will not be a true jury of my peers, otherwise they’d all show up wearing NRA hats and reading SWAT magazine. Instead, I’ll have some granola-head asking why I didn’t use my “chi” or do a wristlock on the guy trying to bury the tire iron in my head. “I was in fear for my life and was forced to use my pocketknife to disable the attacker so I could escape safely” works better for me than “I pulled out my Combat Karambit and eviscerated the dirtbag.”

-Should your hard-use knife be a utility razor? Only you can define “hard use.” Some people have trouble telling the difference between knives and screwdrivers…

-When does a neck knife have a place? When it’s legal to carry in your area, it’s consistent with your style of dress, and you’ve trained to deploy it and use it when you need it. You also need to realize that many neck knives are incapable of disabling an attacker and must back them up with other skills. Read here for more:

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-knives/concealed-micro-muscle/

-What is the minimum and maximum blade length recommended for EDC of PD? That depends upon local laws. If you can manage it, at least 3 inches. If you live in Chicago or Boston, settle for the legal 2.5 or move.

-What is opinion of assisted openers? They’re fun, but overrated for defensive use.

-What is opinion of factory vs. custom for EDC? Consider knives like guns, with the same challenges of explaining to a jury what you were carrying. I carry a stock Glock because it’s reliable and it’s exactly what thousands of cops carry. The more “tactical” it seems, the more the idiots will want to assume that you were looking for an excuse to use it. Also, I’ve had to go into non-permissive environments (including a lot of museums and parks) and had to remove my knives to get in. Of course, these places do not offer the courtesy of keeping them for you or even renting a locker because in their perfect non-permissive world you shouldn’t be carrying them. My solution is to carry a sandwich-sized zip-lock bag with me. If I need to ditch my knives, they go in the bag and the bag goes into a planter or under a bush outside. I’m discreet and haven’t lost any knives yet, but I’d rather lose a $100 production knife than a $400 custom.

-What is opinion of DVD vs. Dojo training? Learning takes a motivated student and a decent basis of information. The better the teacher, the greater potential there is to learn, whether it’s firsthand or via video. Well-produced videos also offer camera angles that allow your brain to easily understand and replicate movement. That’s why most of the videos I produced when I ran Paladin Press’ video production featured overhead camera angles.
While there is no substitute for hands-on training with a good instructor, if someone tries hard enough… you know the rest. Some of the best stuff I know I learned by watching videos of some very talented martial artists with the sound turned off. Once I realized they couldn’t articulate what they were doing, it was just a distraction.

-What is opinion of edge vs. gun for ambush defense while a foot? Have both and complement them with solid empty-hand skills. If you are ambushed with a contact-distance weapon, the attacker will play on his terms, i.e. a “knifer” will get close and then move. He will not announce his intentions from 21 feet away to allow you to shoot him. As such, you must use your hands to stay alive long enough to draw and use a weapon.

-What is the proper carry for deployment of you EDC blade when carrying a gun strong side? Strong side as well. That way your initial empty-hand threat-management skills feed the draw for both weapons.

-Why do we not train deployment of closed knife during verbal deescalation drills? Who says I don’t? We do lots of “sneaky” draws and carries, but we address those in seminars. Why tip our hand?

-Why are reinforced strikes with the closed knife in hand not taught more in training? We strike with the closed knife when we are justified in drawing the knife in the first place, but things have happened to quickly for us to open it. All of our improvised weapons skills work exceedingly well with a closed knife. We just don’t focus so heavily on the “closed-knife-impact-tool” thing that it has to be a separate skill set.

-How important is it to have metal liners for stabbing rigidity though clothing and bone strikes? Not very. Fiberglass-reinforced nylon is extremely strong. Liners hold pocket clips on better since they can be threaded.

I hope this helps. Now I need more coffee…

Stay safe,

Mike

If any post deserves a sticky (as well as a bag for Kona for the poster), this one is it. Thanks, Mike!

[texcaliber]

As usual Mr. Janich, Thank you for the insight.

I am sure I can come up with more questions as usual but I think I should give it a break. No make that pretty-sure. 

Thank you again, and I look forward to viewing the updated MBC: Martial Blade Concepts: The Enhanced Version

tex

[texcaliber]

*Edit*

Its actually a P.S.:

     I would like to also thank the DRTV forum members for allowing me to ask TON of questions without the blatant "disrespect and  lashing out" that so many other forums are known for. Seriously, thank you ALL  for being respectful.

tex