Saiga/AK legality and optics Help!

[fightingquaker13]

OK. I bragged on buying my new Saiga earlier. Its 7.62x39. I want to know from AK owners out there (this is my my first) three things.
1) Is a stock Saiga with high caps 922R compliant or do I need to change the gas piston or something if I use US made mags?
2) What mags would you reccomend?
3)As far as as optics, should I bother, and if so what? This is a TEOTWAWKI weapon and a range/hog hunting toy. I was thinking about a red dot, but how do I mount it? Shoud I even bother? My budget is about two bills max including rings etc. Advice?
FQ13 Who is still loving the fact that I now own, not just an evil black rifle, but a super evil one as its one of those Roosskie ones.Once again, kiss my ass Sarah Brady, God I love this country, and I pity Phil.  

[billt]

1.) What is "TEOTWAWKI"?

2.) Who is "Phil"? 

[1911 Junkie]

1.) What is "TEOTWAWKI"?

2.) Who is "Phil"? 

TEOTWAWKI = The End Of The World As We Know It

Phil is a poor bloke from down under who lives under oppressive laws and loves that which he cannot obtain (legally).

[JohnZ]

http://forum.saiga-12.com/lofiversion/index.php/t18530.html

"You have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines. Since high capacity magazines are considered “unsporting”, and would be in violation of 922®. Your rifle with mag has 14 parts. Use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston and you are good to go."

[warhawke]

It is my understanding that you may NOT use AK magazines in a Saiga without converting it to 922r compliance standards. As I understand it you would only need to swap 4 parts (2 if using US mags, but never count on US mags as compliance parts as all F-troop needs to do is show you owned or possessed a foreign mag to bust you). The issue with the Saiga is that the hammer, trigger and sear are custom items because of the stock, so you can't just drop in Red Star or G-2 parts and call it good. I would recommend you just convert it all the way to AK style and call it good or run with low-cap mags.

P.S. I understand that Siaga's need a new bullet guide (feed-ramp) to run standard AK mags too, you might just want to have the thing professionally altered. More money but less hassle.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

The dealer who sold me this thing offered an interesting (though I'm not sure valid) take on 922r. His theory is  that it doesn't apply to the Saiga as it doesn't fall under the criteria of the old AWB, eg, no psitol grip, threaded barrel, folding stock etc. Personally, since a US mag counts as three parts (mag, floor plate and follower) and a new gas piston is $20, I'll go that route, but I am curious to hear your thoughts about this assinine law here. Likewise, what abot optics? I really would like to hear from some AK guys here. Help a "comrade" out.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

The dealer who sod me this thing offered an interesting (though I'm not sure valid) take on 922r. His theory isthat it doesn't apply to the Saiga as it doesn't fall under the criteria of the old AWB, eg, no pitol grip, treaded barrel, folding stock etc. Personally, since a US mag conts as three parts (mag, floor plate and follower) and a new gas piston is $20, I'll go that route, but I am curious to here your thoughts about this assinine law here. Likewise, what abot optics? I really would like to hear from some AK guys here. Help a "comrade" out.
FQ13

On an AK I would not bother with optics, it really doesn't have the range or accuracy to make it worth while, that's not the type of shooting it was designed for

[Badgersmilk]

922r is left vauge so it can be bent to match whatever situation it needs to when a conviction is wanted (against YOU the gun owner).  The more times you read through the laws, the more holes you'll see.  

Lawyers have told me if you shoot somebody with ANY kind of assult weapon and it goes to court its all down hill for you.  "Just based on looks of the gun the other lawyer will label you a violent gun nut for owning such a thing.  Make sure if your using something for home defense that its got a wood stock, a shoulder strap, and looks like an old hunting gun.  Nothing remotely like a military firearm in any way."  Dont ask why I had to talk to lawyers on this...  Use what you like, but dont think the prosecuting attorney isnt going to be all over telling the jury how your a premedative nut for "owning military style weapons"!

When it goes to court (and it will regardless of whether or not the guy dies) it doesnt matter what other guns you have.  Those wont be admissed as evidence.  Only the one you used will be.  If its a "military style", or "black gun".  Grease up your hole!  

Anyone can argue whats said here...  These are not my words, not my theories.  This is what happened.  Think "it wont happen like that to me"?  Grease up that hole!  And make sure you've got PLENTY of cash for a GOOD defense lawyer and the fines!

[fightingquaker13]

Sad, but true. SD doesn't stop when the last shot is fired, it just moves to stage two. Only this time, its decided by lawyers, not guns. However much you spent on guns, prepare to spend ten time that for a good deense attorney, and double that if the perp or his estate (if you've done your job right) sues you. It sucks, but its true. You lose by having to shoot a violent criminal who broke into your home, and you lose again when/if you have to go to court. Still, better tried by twelve than carried by six.
FQ13 Who is still excited by his new gun, but a little bummed out by the fact that owning the best (LEGAL DAMN IT) tool for the job will doubtless be held against him. It makes me agree more and more with TAB who says that the standard for legal guns should be that anything LEOs can own, a civilian can own. No further questions, nor presumptions. 
FQ13

[USSA-1]

Lawyers have told me if you shoot somebody with ANY kind of assult weapon and it goes to court its all down hill for you.  "Just based on looks of the gun the other lawyer will label you a violent gun nut for owning such a thing.  Make sure if your using something for home defense that its got a wood stock, a shoulder strap, and looks like an old hunting gun.  Nothing remotely like a military firearm in any way."  Dont ask why I had to talk to lawyers on this...  Use what you like, but dont think the prosecuting attorney isnt going to be all over telling the jury how your a premedative nut for "owning military style weapons"!

While I can appreciate your advice, I think it is misplaced.

First, a good shoot is a good shoot.  Know the law, follow the law, and you'll be fine.
Second, this philosophy may have been true 10 or 20 years ago, but the world is a different place.  M4 Carbines are quickly becoming acceptable mainstream SD weapons.
Third, if that is what your lawyer told you, find another lawyer.  Any lawyer fresh out of community college law school could shoot down (no pun intended) that argument.  I can think of 5 responsible justifications right off the top of my head.

Now if we are talking about using an AK style weapons platform, then yes, the battle will be a little harder.  But it's a public image battle, not a legal battle.  The Supreme Court has ruled that (paraphrasing) if Deadly Force is justified then the manner in which the force is applied is of no consequence.  Be it a rifle, pistol, knife, flashlight, car, pen, etc..  The use of an AK in a shooting that may be ambiguous or excessive, may influence a prosecutor, but so will several other factors.  Once again, refer to rule one and I think you'll be fine.  The prosecutor may not like it, but prosecutor's are driven by winning not necessarily what's right, especially ones with political aspirations.  They all like to have perfect conviction records so they can use those as good springboards to a political career.  The cherry pick cases they know they can win hands down.  If you follow the law, this works in your favor. 

USSA-1